[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Propagator

We should sticky this thread since this will be the ultimate collection of famous last words.

I lived in PA for 11 years, and I had a Subaru the whole time. I started running two sets of tires, summer + winter after I spun out on NJ turnpike on my ALL SEASONS as I was coming home from Long Island. My all seasons worked just fine on that road for the first hour, that is until the moment I ended up in the ditch. Luckily I was going slow, no other car was around me, and the ditch was a pile of soft snow, so no damage was done, but it was still scary as hell.

The fact is that AWD does jack shit in making you stop. When your tires lose grip, how many wheels the power is sent to means absolutely nothing. Go to a Subaru forum, where people really know what they are talking about regarding AWD, and post your story about running summers in NJ winter. You will be laughed off.

And as for BMW knowing what they are doing, I suggest you send an email to BMW USA and ask for their opinion on whether you are operating your vehicle as the engineers intended. I think I know the answer.

THIS is all I have been getting at. Some people have been getting away without winters. .....lucky.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoi

Hmmmmm. Which dealer is this? How much they charging for a decent set of 17'' winters with whatever old rims?

BMW of Morristown.

Give them a ring for pricing. Remember, 20% off for the CCA-worth the $40 in membership.

Bonus, second set of wheels means less wear and tear on your summer setup.

[Tsuyoi]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

BMW of Morristown.

Give them a ring for pricing. Remember, 20% off for the CCA-worth the $40 in membership.

Bonus, second set of wheels means less wear and tear on your summer setup.

Hmmm 50 min out from me. Not too bad. I'll look into it thanks.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by JohnVidale

I admit to not being an expert in tire classification. So all this angst was aimed at people, such as the cited soccer moms with SUVs, who buy summer tires for their high performance, and neglect to switch tires twice a year? Not at people who use regular tires, and neglect to switch to winter tires? If so, mea culpa, but then it seems like a rare problem, and not one anyone could spot on a moving car, and still not all that fatal.

Yes, I think you misunderstood my point. Summer tires are very different from the all seasons. They get very hard and brittle as the temperature drops below freezing. I am running summers all year, because I live in Bay Area, but even in the mild winter that we have here, the decrease in grip level on cold days is definitely noticeable when I push my car.

And as for this being a rare problem, I don't know if it is all that rare among BMW owners, since in the US our cars usually come with summer tires from the factory when equipped with sports suspension. I agree this IS a rare problem for the general public.

[328inGE]

Having lived in Europe for over 10 tears, i find this thread quite amusing. All season or winter tires are mandatory here in germany but you dont see many germans with all seasons, they get winter/summer sets, regardless of the cost, inconvenience, amount of snow, etc. Why is there such a different perspective compared to some in this thread?When given the choice, many people go without insurance and never have any problems either, until.....

[Tsuyoi]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

Having lived in Europe for over 10 tears, i find this thread quite amusing. All season or winter tires are mandatory here in germany but you dont see many germans with all seasons, they get winter/summer sets, regardless of the cost, inconvenience, amount of snow, etc. Why is there such a different perspective compared to some in this thread?When given the choice, many people go without insurance and never have any problems either, until.....

The difference is how much snow respective members are seeing. I mean, over in some parts of Africa and SA you go around telling people you drive a RWD instead of AWD and they'll think you're nuts too.

People in places like Florida or Texas see snow maybe 12 times in over a decade. Even NY sees REAL snow maybe once a year. For people like us, having a dedicated set of tires for maybe 2 days a year just isn't practical.

[JohnVidale]

nm - no point in philosophizing, our POVs seem clear enough.

[328inGE]

**delete post** not worth responding

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

**delete post** not worth responding

Agreed.

[T_F30]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

These are the morons I worry about driving behind me In the winters...

Well said.

[BavarianFanatic]

Every BMW that I pass on its roof in the median is (was) on summer tires.

[tojo_m]

One of the most Effed up threads I read. This person I knew smoked cigerrates his whole life and did not get cancer. So conclusion is that cigerrate smoking does not cause cancer.

[JohnVidale]

[edit - Sorry, the M8 under the Santa Cruz Islands that I had to deal with in my day job got me a bit riled up. I'll try to behave better.]

[drob23]

Not sure I see the point of all this internet banter...everyone else is wrong and probabilities can be interpreted either way.

Funny someone in Ann Arbor spun out...I lost control of my old prelude while getting on 94W from the Jackson on-ramp in decent snow and it was easily the scariest moment of my life. As a poor grad student, I couldn't really afford a fancy winter setup but I still figured out a way on a car worth 3k.

Just this morning on my commute some idiots came to a complete stop on 94, as everyone was slamming their brakes some old Pontiac POS flew by in the Emergency lane passing maybe 4 stopped cars cause he couldn't stop. For the record, it was about 20F with some left over snow.

If you're going to spend 40k+ on a car, I cannot really understand why you'd hedge your odds with respect to car controllability in a world of idiot motorists. My experiences in LA or NYC would concern me even more. Could you drive "safely" with a Z06 running summer tires...of course...but you have *severely* reduced your ability to react to the road. The *severely* is obviously the subject of debate in this thread, and everyone has a unique situation to judge if the severity justifies $1500. Making it up driveways vs stopping quickly are completely different metrics for the record.

I'm running quattro with PA4 performance winter tires - this also saves my nice rims from the salt, saves rims from pot holes inevitably forming post winter and extends the life of the summer tires. I have a garage and a jack, so no $$$ issue which makes it easier for me. Having lived in Boston for a little, I'd never want to own a nice car like this without a garage there, which I assume holds in any city.

And finally...obligatory Go Blue! Huge win last night...

[Minimaul]

I feel safer driving my e36 m3 on blizzaks, than I do driving my 328ix on all season. The 328 is all over the place, the only perception that it "handles better" is that it launches easier. But any turn or stop and I'm sliding all over the place. The m3 feels solid through all turns and on ramps covered in snow. Slips on the launch, and I don't mean crazy 1/4 miles launches either, just DD driving. But it has got grip where it counts, turning and stopping. The 328 will be amazing when I get some winter tires on it.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Minimaul

I feel safer driving my e36 m3 on blizzaks, than I do driving my 328ix on all season. The 328 is all over the place, the only perception that it "handles better" is that it launches easier. But any turn or stop and I'm sliding all over the place. The m3 feels solid through all turns and on ramps covered in snow. Slips on the launch, and I don't mean crazy 1/4 miles launches either, just DD driving. But it has got grip where it counts, turning and stopping. The 328 will be amazing when I get some winter tires on it.

Once you do that you will NEVER go back. Im on my 5th Audi (quattro) with winters and its amazing.
People don't realize that it doesnt cost $1500 for winter setup. Basically you are buying your NEXT set of tires early. If tire prices go up in 2 years you may actually be saving money!

[drob23]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

[/b]
Once you do that you will NEVER go back. Im on my 5th Audi (quattro) with winters and its amazing.
People don't realize that it doesnt cost $1500 for winter setup. Basically you are buying your NEXT set of tires early. If tire prices go up in 2 years you may actually be saving money!

Agreed, $1500 is for new performance winter tires + rims - the rotors on my car were too large to fit anything smaller than 18", but I bet a cheap 17" setup could be had for $800. The piece of mind is priceless, and the vehicles value you'll lose from a 10 MPH fender bender is probably 5x the cost of the tires.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by drob23

Agreed, $1500 is for new performance winter tires + rims - the rotors on my car were too large to fit anything smaller than 18", but I bet a cheap 17" setup could be had for $800. The piece of mind is priceless, and the vehicles value you'll lose from a 10 MPH fender bender is probably 5x the cost of the tires.

I scored week old OZ Superleggeras for $380 and one season old Dunlop Sport M3's for $100. Deals are out there.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by drob23

Agreed, $1500 is for new performance winter tires + rims - the rotors on my car were too large to fit anything smaller than 18", but I bet a cheap 17" setup could be had for $800. The piece of mind is priceless, and the vehicles value you'll lose from a 10 MPH fender bender is probably 5x the cost of the tires.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I scored week old OZ Superleggeras for $380 and one season old Dunlop Sport M3's for $100. Deals are out there.

Good deals boys but what I mean is your summer tires will last twice as long so you are effectively buying your NEXT set now.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

Good deals boys but what I mean is your summer tires will last twice as long so you are effectively buying your NEXT set now.

I know. That too.

19" Michelin SS's are not exactly cheap

So getting more out of them is a big bonus.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by drob23

Not sure I see the point of all this internet banter...everyone else is wrong and probabilities can be interpreted either way.

Funny someone in Ann Arbor spun out...I lost control of my old prelude while getting on 94W from the Jackson on-ramp in decent snow and it was easily the scariest moment of my life. As a poor grad student, I couldn't really afford a fancy winter setup but I still figured out a way on a car worth 3k.

Just this morning on my commute some idiots came to a complete stop on 94, as everyone was slamming their brakes some old Pontiac POS flew by in the Emergency lane passing maybe 4 stopped cars cause he couldn't stop. For the record, it was about 20F with some left over snow.

If you're going to spend 40k+ on a car, I cannot really understand why you'd hedge your odds with respect to car controllability in a world of idiot motorists. My experiences in LA or NYC would concern me even more. Could you drive "safely" with a Z06 running summer tires...of course...but you have *severely* reduced your ability to react to the road. The *severely* is obviously the subject of debate in this thread, and everyone has a unique situation to judge if the severity justifies $1500. Making it up driveways vs stopping quickly are completely different metrics for the record.

I'm running quattro with PA4 performance winter tires - this also saves my nice rims from the salt, saves rims from pot holes inevitably forming post winter and extends the life of the summer tires. I have a garage and a jack, so no $$$ issue which makes it easier for me. Having lived in Boston for a little, I'd never want to own a nice car like this without a garage there, which I assume holds in any city.

And finally...obligatory Go Blue! Huge win last night...

My reasoning for winter tires has always been that I can run proper summer tires in the summer (rather than all seasons) and that the cost of the winter set-up would easily offset the deductible I'd have to pay if something didn't pan out as I had hoped. Hell, I used to put winter tires on our X3. The only vehicle that doesn't get them is my Suburban. But that's only because the Michelins I run on it are spectacularly good in the snow.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I scored week old OZ Superleggeras for $380 and one season old Dunlop Sport M3's for $100. Deals are out there.

And they're not too bad to look at either! I'll have to say, best looking Winter Rims yet...(and lightest I'm sure).