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      02-03-2013, 01:12 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
I can do donuts on dry payment. No Audi Oversteers Unless It's Wet or Snowing.
Wrong. I own one that does.
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      02-03-2013, 01:14 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
I can do donuts without a rear diff too.
With red. s4 can/will oversteer if you know what you're doing. If you don't want to like it you won't.
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      02-03-2013, 02:22 AM   #179
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Wrong. I own one that does.
Sure you do.
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      02-03-2013, 12:32 PM   #180
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+1

The tech is also superior and after having owned a G37 I wanted something with better fuel efficiency. If I had really been in love with Audi I would have bought it but I was more passionate about the m sport than the S4. I parked next to one today, no regrets whatsoever. It's still a nice car though
The tech is not superior and the m sport is strictly appearance package. Looks good though.
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      02-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #181
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Sure you do.
You would have no need for awd down there would you?
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      02-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #182
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I test drove the Audi, and I'm sure I'd be happy with either, but I have been inclined to stay with BMW because:
1 - I just like the BMW more
2 - The BMW store is closer to my home
3 - The BMW store's employees were much nicer to me
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      02-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by mtgswede
I did, I wanted to like the S4 so much but after driving it, I could really tell the front wheel bias. Never owned an Audi so the difference was pretty apparant to me. I also was really dissappointed in the dated interior. Just doesn't hold a candle to the F30. Now if I had to choose between an E90 and the Audi, I would have taken the Audi just on the basis of how horrid the E90 interior was.
I think it's a prejudice. Audi is 40/60 split, and it's rear based crown cenrer differential that mainly goes to the rear.
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      02-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #184
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I think it's a prejudice. Audi is 40/60 split, and it's rear based crown cenrer differential that mainly goes to the rear.
It's probably a bit of both, the AWD is certainly more rear biased compared to previous gen quattro, but it's not fair to say the feeling is unnoticeable. The new crown center diff is only on B8.5(2013-) S4's with DSG, the others use a 40-60 torsen center diff. Interestingly, you can replace this with a Stasis center diff that has even more rear wheel bias. When accelerating, the pitch dynamics that make you sink into your seat doesn't compare to RWD, which is how 95% of test drivers would discern the difference.

But complaining that the car understeers on a highway on-ramp is idiotic assuming the rear-diff is equipped.

Last edited by drob23; 02-04-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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      02-03-2013, 07:39 PM   #185
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We went to the Seattle auto show right before deciding on the 328. The Audi just looks old. There's no 'wow, I have to drive that' with the Audi like there is with the BMW.
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      02-04-2013, 08:58 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
It's probably a bit of both, the AWD is certainly more rear biased compared to previous gen quattro, but I don't think it's fair to see it's unnoticeable. The new crown center diff is only on B8.5(2013-) S4's with DSG, the others use a 40-60 torsen center diff. Interestingly, you can replace this with a Stasis center diff that has even more rear wheel bias. When accelerating, the pitch dynamics that make you sink into your seat doesn't compare to RWD, which is how 95% of test drivers would discern the difference.

But complaining that the car understeers on a highway on-ramp is idiotic assuming the rear-diff is equipped.
335 is one wheel drive
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      02-04-2013, 09:41 AM   #187
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335 is one wheel drive
Yea, it sucks they don't offer an LSD even on the 335is...what's even the point of going with the M3 DSG? I'm sure you can add an aftermarket upgrade, but that kind of defeats the purpose of no-cost maintenance when a rear diff is one of the more expensive parts to service/maintain (talk to a GT-R owner).

Edit - Wow, you get a LSD standard on a 24k 1LS Camaro, that's depressing...

Last edited by drob23; 02-04-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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      02-04-2013, 09:59 AM   #188
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Yea, it sucks they don't offer an LSD even on the 335is...what's even the point of going with the M3 DSG? I'm sure you can add an aftermarket upgrade, but that kind of defeats the purpose of no-cost maintenance when a rear diff is one of the more expensive parts to service/maintain (talk to a GT-R owner).

Edit - Wow, you get a LSD standard on a 24k 1LS Camaro, that's depressing...
Plus its really annoying. Traction control kicks in every time you accel quickly to merge into traffic....throttle shuts off. Almost got nailed many times. Big oversight. I wonder why they don't include it? Brutal.
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      02-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
According to the calculation in post 168 - the CM of the 328ix will be lower than 328i w 10mm drop if and only if the xdrive hardware is more than .26m below the nominal CM. Since it's only .205 m, the 328ix CM is higher than the 328i w/ sport suspension (the d class sedan is meant to represent a midsize sedan like the Fusion or Malibu).

edit - I attached the data for you to see.
drob23,

Thank you for providing the information. I would like to follow up via a PM so I don't interrupt this thread any further.

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      02-04-2013, 01:49 PM   #190
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This is a street driven 3. Why so curious?
Everything else being equal, a lower COM will provide better handling.
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      03-04-2013, 02:40 PM   #191
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I did. It just looks so much slimmer, almost feminine. I chose the BMW.
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      03-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #192
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I did. It just looks so much slimmer, almost feminine. I chose the BMW.
You chose well my friend inline 6 all day long
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      03-04-2013, 03:33 PM   #193
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Everything else being equal, a lower COM will provide better handling.
wouldn't a lower car improve aero?
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      03-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #194
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I owned a 2001 S4, back in 2003, and then leased a 2006 S4 in the fall of 2005. We loved those cars. For 2 years, my wife and I were both driving S4s. They were our first introduction to the luxury car segment. At that time, unlike now, I could drive around Indy all week and maybe see one other S car. They had some nice novelty factor. Now, I see more of those than M3s and probably the same as 335s. As an aside, unlike the 335i xdrive, they felt built from the ground up around being AWD. I was pretty sure I couldn't like a car more. I was paying $905 per month lease for that 06 back then on a $55g car. The residual and the money factors were awful and there was no "dealing" on the sticker.

When the 06 went off of lease we test drove a 335 to replace it. It was a cold reception at first, but the BMW was around the same price tag, so it was worth a look. The car felt like it had less torque due to no V8, but felt lighter and actually faster. After a lengthy test drive the whole BMW picture started to become clear. Every dial, knob, button, latch was near perfect. Everything felt deliberate and solid. The driving experience took hold and, unlike the S4, everything was smoother. The S4s just could not match the caliber of build, fit, finish, performance. Started the drive being BMW haters and finished huge fans.

Take that back to the dealership and for a car that cost $56,500 was $799/mo - three years after my lease of the S4. The choice was simple.

The sticker on the S4 might compare or be less, but the cost is not. Awesome cars, but they are not BMWs.
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      03-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #195
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Buying through USAA I got a much bigger discount on the 335i than the S4, and the real-world S4 pricing in my area was higher to start with. That would have been OK if I felt like I was getting much more for the money, but it didn't seem like it (to me.) Plus I just really liked the 335i so it wasn't a hard decision.

My previous experience with Audi reliability was not reassuring, either.
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      03-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
Yea, it sucks they don't offer an LSD even on the 335is...what's even the point of going with the M3 DSG? I'm sure you can add an aftermarket upgrade, but that kind of defeats the purpose of no-cost maintenance when a rear diff is one of the more expensive parts to service/maintain (talk to a GT-R owner).

Edit - Wow, you get a LSD standard on a 24k 1LS Camaro, that's depressing...
You get LSD on an infiniti G37S, they should have made it an option on 335i M sport.
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      03-05-2013, 03:18 PM   #197
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wouldn't a lower car improve aero?
Yes, as far as I know. Not sure how much difference that would make driving on public roads, but expect it would be helpful on a track.

I was commenting on the fact that the extra weight of AWD may have an unintended benefit of lowering the center of mass/gravity.

Others have mentioned this, but I would like to see BMW offer the same degree of sport suspension with AWD that they do with RWD- same ride height, etc. I do appreciate that BMW is now offering an optional suspension with AWD. If DHP was not available on xDrive, then I would have purchased RWD with DHP.

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      03-05-2013, 03:26 PM   #198
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Yes, as far as I know. Not sure how much difference that would make driving on public roads, but expect it would be helpful on a track.

I was commenting on the fact that the extra weight of AWD may have an unintended benefit of lowering the center of mass/gravity.

Others have mentioned this, but I would like to see BMW offer the same degree of sport suspension with AWD that they do with RWD- same ride height, etc. I do appreciate that BMW is now offering an optional suspension with AWD. If DHP was not available on xDrive, then I would have purchased RWD with DHP.

Bruce
Not sure if this was ever discussed, but does the xdrive with DHP actually lower the car? I understand it gives the option to stiffen it, but not sure it lowers the car. You could always throw some springs to get the 1" drop, shouldn't mess with the adjustable dampers, and I'm guessing will run you maybe $500 installed?
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