[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

BMW is turning into Lexus. All luxury, no fun or inspiring cars.

I can mention plenty of BMWs that are sportier and handle better than their Lexus rivals, even compared to Benz and Audi. BMW would be stupid not to give people the additional luxury they need. The F30 is much better inside than the E90 and each F30 model is an improvement on the E90 technically too.

How the 320i is all of a sudden a dud car makes no sense to me, it's 100 times better than the E90 320i.

Again, the old saying "If you don't want it, don't buy it" comes to mind. Other people want it, and that helps pay for M cars, better 335i's, the 328i, i-car development etc.

It's all part of a bigger BMW picture that people just can't see. SMH

[KORALLROT]

Send it back.

Needs. More. Diesel.

[bimmerjph]

This is not surprising if there is a 2er gc coming. The badge whores will go for the larger more profitable 3er, while the enthusiasts go for the 2er gc.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by topcat87

320i vs 328i


The 320i and 328i's engine, fuel system, intercooler,downpipe etc etc are exactly the same. Differences would include smaller brakes and exhaust which can be easily changed.

This has been discussed to death in other regions where N20 320 and 328 are available

The only difference is the boost level that the ecu allow the 320i to make which is definitely lower than that of the 328i. This is how BMW differentiates the cars and control the HP output.

So right now once aftermarket tuners circumvent the DME and reflash the 320i engine maps with that of the 328i the 320i is game!!

There's more to it than that, it's also the reason why tuners aren't able to extract the same power/torque as the higher tuned version, be it the Mercedes M271 Evo (184ps vs 204ps) or BMW N20 (184ps vs 218ps vs 245ps) or various turbo diesels (e.g. BMW N47). The only explanation I can think of is that they bin the engines according to wht they can achieve on the factory testbench after assembly.

[Mako]

Future of 3 series:

during the refresh in 2 years this will happen:

entry:
320i, competing with base Audi A4, it will get more power, around 210
next step:
328i, to compete with the Audi 3.0T, but with better fuel effeciency, they will raise the power to about 260HP (on paper, probably 280 in real life) so it competes with the larger Audi engine performance wise, the i4 is capable of this

the 335i will be gone

M340i (or whatever they call it, maybe still M335i) will compete with the S4, it will be more unique because there will be no regular 340i, and tons of BMW buyers care greatly about the badge on their vehicle and don't simply want an M in front of the same numbers the masses have if they are paying $10K more. The M340i will use the i6 (same as new M3) but with smaller turbos and around 350 horsepower, compete price and performance wise with the S4.

Then the RS4 and M3 will compete as they do now (well the US won't have an RS4 but you get the point)

This will also allow for greater engine (performance) gaps between the models and price gaps as well, 320 to 328 will add ~50 HP, 328 to M340 will add almost 100 HP and M340 to M3 will add around 70 HP

[328inGE]

Originally Posted by BradF

The 335 will be dropped when the new M3 hits, and the 328i will become the new 335 - with more power than the 320i to justify the price difference.

I would be surprised if this happens. I just see them offering 3 non-M choices (like caddy).

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

It isn't just you. People like you keep adding up. Although hey will gain buyers from other brands with their new models, but in turn they will lose the diehard old school owners.

Not so die hard then eh?

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Mako

How does this only get 22/33 with xdrive and automatic? I think my 335i xdrive is rated 21/30 (avering exactly 25.0 after 3,000 miles). going from an i6 with 300 HP to an i4 with 180 HP, I would have expect something like 25/36

Ask the EPA, for all other fuel consumption test standards (EU, Japan, Australia etc.) the N20 consumes much less fuel than the N55.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by BradF

Really. How much less does this engine "cost" BMW to manufacture than the N20?

How much less does the 28i engine cost to produce because of the existence of the 20i?

Originally Posted by BradF

The 335 will be dropped when the new M3 hits, and the 328i will become the new 335 - with more power than the 320i to justify the price difference.

huh??

[Tsuvoi]

Should we expect a stiff price increase on the upcoming 2014 328 and 335 to "make space" for this entry-level 320?

[BMWFB02]

Originally Posted by E9TOU

Price-wise, wouldn't this eat into 1-Series sales?

+1 :

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

I bet it's mostly because the base A4 (the 3's main competitor) is now more than $4,000 cheaper to start.

yup, I see the 320i squared at the A4, and that's why the 320i will be available with xDrive.

[clarence]

This thing abt "die hard old school owners" is all bunk. Real die hard old school owners don't care abt the badge, they care abt the driving experience, & driving experience does not equal to speed.
The "320" badge will be familiar to those real old school owners.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by ONE-77

+1 :

Which 1er u're talking abt?

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

It isn't just you. People like you keep adding up. Although hey will gain buyers from other brands with their new models, but in turn they will lose the diehard old school owners.

well how loyal are those loyal owners and what would they buy instead of a 3-series?

[barkles]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

It isn't just you. People like you keep adding up. Although hey will gain buyers from other brands with their new models, but in turn they will lose the diehard old school owners.

Why? It still goes to 60 in 7 seconds, it's a very tunable engine and it's the same MSRP as both a new E30 325i or E46 325i not adjusting for inflation (a 1990 325i in 2013 dollars would be $58,000). What was the price of a new Camry in 1990 and what's the price of a 2013 Camry?

If anything this just shows how committed to enthusiasts they are. Not all of us care about 0-60 times but just want a great drivers car that's still more than adequately powered.

[328inGE]

^why is the xdrive so much more than the base model?

[wdlv]

I'm all for diesel but we need more diesel gas stations in the U.S. For me on the east coast they are very rare so, with that great gas mileage, I'll be using all of it to find the next gas station!!!



BTW, I love that we will be getting options. IMO they had it right the first time with the 335D, I think it helped to change peoples minds about diesel. Regardless, I'm hopeful for the 320D.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by barkles

Not all of us care about 0-60 times but just want a great drivers car that's still more than adequately powered.

This is the real die hard old school owner.

[宝马.e90]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

This is not surprising if there is a 2er gc coming. The badge whores will go for the larger more profitable 3er, while the enthusiasts go for the 2er gc.

This.

I can see the 3-Series carrying on by name only and the enthusiast car will lie and be in the upcoming 2-Series.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

I bet it's mostly because the base A4 (the 3's main competitor) is now more than $4,000 cheaper to start.

yeah, but that fwd with cvt - a truly lame car

[clarence]

Originally Posted by wdlv

I'm all for diesel but we need more diesel gas stations in the U.S. For me on the east coast they are very rare so, with that great gas mileage, I'll be using all of it to find the next gas station!!!



BTW, I love that we will be getting options. IMO they had it right the first time with the 335D, I think it helped to change peoples minds about diesel. Regardless, I'm hopeful for the 320D.

The 328d is heading for Canada so it'll be in US as well.