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      01-15-2013, 04:03 PM   #221
sean10mm
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Originally Posted by freshwhite335 View Post
Seems like they're going to keep diluting the brand until it becomes the next Volkswagen, they all look alike no matter how much money you spend.
Says the guy with the 1er!
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      01-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #222
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interesting thread.

I am a Bimmer n00b, and currently drive an Infiniti G35x right now. The problem though, is that I'm only getting ~17 mpg and I am driving much more these days. After much research, I have my sights set on a 320d, which I previously thought was starting production in July. With today's announcement, are we more likely to get the 320d or 328d on American soil?

As an aside, I'm eyeing this car because of the safety, fuel efficiency, reliability, and superior German engineering. There is a lot of talk about brand status and whatnot ("badge whores?"). Those who are hung up on status are comparing themselves (bimmer owners) to those who are not. Those who are not typically don't understand the nuances of the various model numbers. As such, this elitist status really is a reflection of how you feel about yourself and what you feel your car says about you. Just an observation. Looking forward to owning one of the finest cars made, even if it means putting a minor ding in the egos of higher end bimmer owners.
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      01-15-2013, 04:20 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by 328inGE View Post
This does not cheapen the brand and is consistent with the strategy for other BMW sedans.

F01: 740Li - $77,600 750Li - $90,500 760Ki - $140,700 = $63K spread

F10: 528i - $47,800 535i - $53,500 550i - $62,700 = $15K spread

F30: 320i - $33,445 2. 328i - $36,850 1. 335i - $43,150 = $10K spread

What a hilarious thread. Im glad I don't buy cars based on some of their owners
These have to be straight rental car status, with absolutely no options. My F10 535 was above the price of the 550i you mentioned above. If I was able to find an F10 550 for 62,700 I would have sure as hell picked that up instead. But they were more in the mid to high 70s
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      01-15-2013, 04:21 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by bimmern00b View Post
interesting thread.

I am a Bimmer n00b, and currently drive an Infiniti G35x right now. The problem though, is that I'm only getting ~17 mpg and I am driving much more these days. After much research, I have my sights set on a 320d, which I previously thought was starting production in July. With today's announcement, are we more likely to get the 320d or 328d on American soil?
If you do a lot of city driving, the ActiveHybrid 3 may be a better fit than a diesel model, for combined mpg.
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      01-15-2013, 04:27 PM   #225
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SamS - appreciate the feedback.

I actually do a lot of highway driving (55-75mph), and my daily commute is roughly 55 miles round trip. What I forgot to mention is that I want xDrive too, because I live in an area that gets quite a bit of snow/rain.
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      01-15-2013, 04:28 PM   #226
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SamS - appreciate the feedback.

I actually do a lot of highway driving (55-75mph), and my daily commute is roughly 55 miles round trip. What I forgot to mention is that I want xDrive too, because I live in an area that gets quite a bit of snow/rain.
Yep, you need an xDrive diesel
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      01-15-2013, 04:30 PM   #227
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No, they're not throwing them out, merely badging them as 20i if it cannot attain 28i's level of performance. That's the only reason why no tuner can attain 28i's level of output using a 20i if all parts are identical.
BMW has been making 20i version of the N20 since 2011, so they're wasting nothing.
What you're saying makes no sense. BMW does not dyno every single engine that comes off the production line. They do a driving simulation at the end of the assembly line on something that resembles a dyno, but the car is already badged at that point. The 180 HP engine is designed to output 180 HP from start to finish.

The reason tuners can't get the same output from the 180 HP version as they do the 240 HP version is because of some difference in the engine that BMW put there. It may be intake related. It may be exhaust related. It may be turbo related. It may be Valvetronic related. It may be head flow related...

I don't know, but I do know that there's no way that BMW's engine assembly line suffers from that degree of manufacturing variation.
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      01-15-2013, 04:30 PM   #228
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If you do a lot of city driving, the ActiveHybrid 3 may be a better fit than a diesel model, for combined mpg.
I dont think the AH3 would come close to MPG for a 320d.
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      01-15-2013, 04:30 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
These have to be straight rental car status, with absolutely no options. My F10 535 was above the price of the 550i you mentioned above. If I was able to find an F10 550 for 62,700 I would have sure as hell picked that up instead. But they were more in the mid to high 70s
yeah seriously!

I paid $47k for my 335i, and that was AFTER massive discounting/haggling (and it came with Premium/Tech/Cold on a base)...!! The dealer markup is absurd.
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      01-15-2013, 04:35 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328inGE
This does not cheapen the brand and is consistent with the strategy for other BMW sedans.

F01: 740Li - $77,600 750Li - $90,500 760Ki - $140,700 = $63K spread

F10: 528i - $47,800 535i - $53,500 550i - $62,700 = $15K spread

F30: 320i - $33,445 2. 328i - $36,850 1. 335i - $43,150 = $10K spread

What a hilarious thread. Im glad I don't buy cars based on some of their owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
These have to be straight rental car status, with absolutely no options. My F10 535 was above the price of the 550i you mentioned above. If I was able to find an F10 550 for 62,700 I would have sure as hell picked that up instead. But they were more in the mid to high 70s
I just used MRSP. Im sure with options it would be different but that would be the same with each model within each of the series (3-5-7). The intent was just to show there is no way a $10K spread between 335i and 320i was going to cheapen the brand in anyway.
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      01-15-2013, 04:36 PM   #231
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I dont think the AH3 would come close to MPG for a 320d.
For city driving, the AH3 gets better MPG than 320d. 5.3L/100Km vs. 5.8L/100Km

http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/...ehybrid-3.html
http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/...2012-320d.html

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Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
yeah seriously!

I paid $47k for my 335i, and that was AFTER massive discounting/haggling (and it came with Premium/Tech/Cold on a base)...!! The dealer markup is absurd.
Dealer markup is not very much, about 8%.
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      01-15-2013, 04:39 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
These have to be straight rental car status, with absolutely no options. My F10 535 was above the price of the 550i you mentioned above. If I was able to find an F10 550 for 62,700 I would have sure as hell picked that up instead. But they were more in the mid to high 70s
You order any stripped BMW you want. No one is forcing you to pick one up from the lot.
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      01-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
For city driving, the AH3 gets better MPG than 320d. 5.3L/100Km vs. 5.8L/100Km
http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/...ehybrid-3.html
http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/...2012-320d.html
true, but you reference combined MPG which is a 12+MPG difference.
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      01-15-2013, 04:54 PM   #234
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true, but you reference combined MPG which is a 12+MPG difference.
No, I said If you do a lot of city driving then the AH3 combined mpg might be better than a diesel. Which is a fact.
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      01-15-2013, 04:55 PM   #235
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You order any stripped BMW you want. No one is forcing you to pick one up from the lot.
No one forced me to do anything. I have creature comforts I have grown to like with BMW's. So I want a car that has all that I like.. I am not one of those people you see starting a thread asking how to upgrade to the comfort seats or how I can upgrade my stereo because I did not want to pony up for the premium radio.
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      01-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #236
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No, I said If you do a lot of city driving then the AH3 combined mpg might be better than a diesel. Which is a fact.
its not that important to me because I dont have a stake in either model. You did say the combined MPG might be better than the diesel but the website you provided states a combined mpg of 52 MPG for the 320d and 40 MPG for the AH3. I don't have a way to measure what "a lot of city driving" would do to the combined MPG figures, so I can only go off the facts you provided with the links. I really don't want to argue with you on this though.
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      01-15-2013, 05:23 PM   #237
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If I understand correctly? People are up in arms about this because potentially the door has opened to new customers who would like a BMW instead of a domestic , Japanese or Korean therefore allowing BMW to further capitalise on the 3er for the US Market allowing BMW to jump ahead of its competitors .

Why should we not offer a model to our US customers ? That according to my stateside colleagues is potential growth because these buyers that purchase domestic etc are more likely to pay outright rather than lease. In Europe we can offer the 3er as a 318d yet no one is up in arms about exclusivity. Anyone who would like a BMW is considered a target customer because it has shown that these customers will stay with the brand and that is what we would like to see in the long run. I am sure there are people here on this forum who are interested in this open door because now they can have a 3er a model they probably thought would be out of reach. And I would gladly hand them their key to their 3er their first and possibly not their last BMW.
Because people that get mad at the thought of "posers" owning 320i's are actually themselves posers, whose perception of their own cars depend on who else owns one. A real car enthusiast wouldn't give a crap about "brand dilution" as long as he can buy the car he wants.
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      01-15-2013, 05:42 PM   #238
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A real car enthusiast wouldn't give a crap about "brand dilution" as long as he can buy the car he wants.
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      01-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
If I understand correctly? People are up in arms about this because potentially the door has opened to new customers who would like a BMW instead of a domestic , Japanese or Korean therefore allowing BMW to further capitalise on the 3er for the US Market allowing BMW to jump ahead of its competitors .

Why should we not offer a model to our US customers ? That according to my stateside colleagues is potential growth because these buyers that purchase domestic etc are more likely to pay outright rather than lease. In Europe we can offer the 3er as a 318d yet no one is up in arms about exclusivity. Anyone who would like a BMW is considered a target customer because it has shown that these customers will stay with the brand and that is what we would like to see in the long run. I am sure there are people here on this forum who are interested in this open door because now they can have a 3er a model they probably thought would be out of reach. And I would gladly hand them their key to their 3er their first and possibly not their last BMW.
Scott this is the problem that many have been warning BMW about for a while now. If everyone has a BMW what makes a BMW special? While I personally do not care because my purchase decision is based off of how it drives and the quality of the car. Many people don't want everyone and their mother driving the same car they do. Audi knows this. Remember the ad back in 2010 called "The Spell". That ad basically just said "No one has an Audi, which is why you should by one". And that was the underlying tone of the early part of their US push. Despite the fact that their sales still pale in comparison to BMW's, you can't deny that they have grown exponentially over the past few years.


And I will take a keys to a F-type competitor please.
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      01-15-2013, 06:12 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Propagator
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
If I understand correctly? People are up in arms about this because potentially the door has opened to new customers who would like a BMW instead of a domestic , Japanese or Korean therefore allowing BMW to further capitalise on the 3er for the US Market allowing BMW to jump ahead of its competitors .

Why should we not offer a model to our US customers ? That according to my stateside colleagues is potential growth because these buyers that purchase domestic etc are more likely to pay outright rather than lease. In Europe we can offer the 3er as a 318d yet no one is up in arms about exclusivity. Anyone who would like a BMW is considered a target customer because it has shown that these customers will stay with the brand and that is what we would like to see in the long run. I am sure there are people here on this forum who are interested in this open door because now they can have a 3er a model they probably thought would be out of reach. And I would gladly hand them their key to their 3er their first and possibly not their last BMW.
Because people that get mad at the thought of "posers" owning 320i's are actually themselves posers, whose perception of their own cars depend on who else owns one. A real car enthusiast wouldn't give a crap about "brand dilution" as long as he can buy the car he wants.
+1
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      01-15-2013, 09:10 PM   #241
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Also let's not forget that this thing will put considerable pricing pressure on the competitors. The starting price for the 320i is basically the same as the base model A4, and undercuts the C250 by $3K. Granted there are differences in standard equipment level, but the point is that this will potentially benefit everyone shopping in this segment.
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      01-15-2013, 11:46 PM   #242
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What you're saying makes no sense. BMW does not dyno every single engine that comes off the production line. They do a driving simulation at the end of the assembly line on something that resembles a dyno, but the car is already badged at that point. The 180 HP engine is designed to output 180 HP from start to finish.

The reason tuners can't get the same output from the 180 HP version as they do the 240 HP version is because of some difference in the engine that BMW put there. It may be intake related. It may be exhaust related. It may be turbo related. It may be Valvetronic related. It may be head flow related...

I don't know, but I do know that there's no way that BMW's engine assembly line suffers from that degree of manufacturing variation.
Sorry, the N20 is only made in 3 plants for all the production lines BMW have worldwide. The completed engines are test run on a bench & the power & torque are recorded for every engine. This is before shipping out to the relevant plants to be installed into the actual car.
As I (& many) said before, the major parts between 20i & 28i are identical (turbo, block, injectors, camshaft etc), & the binning theory has never been categorically denied by insiders even on threads where they have directly participated.
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