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      12-19-2012, 10:28 PM   #1
claykin
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Software bug that could render you with a dead battery

My car has CA.

With engine off

1) Enter car through front passenger door.
2) Press Start button once to activate entertainment system.
3) Press Start button once to deactive entertainment system.
4) Leave car through passenger door. Don't lock. In my case car is garage parked so no need to lock.

Angel eyes and tail lamps will not shut off. I gave up waiting after 15 minutes and just locked car with remote which shut off all lights.

Tried above a second time and had same result. This time I opened/closed drivers door after 10 minutes and exterior lights shut off immediately.

has nothing to do with key being too close to car. I moved it well away and nothing changed.

Seems like a bug. Beware as you don't want a dead battery in the AM.

Anyone else?
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      12-19-2012, 11:30 PM   #2
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It's not a bug. You have to open the driver's door to turn the lights off if you turned the ignition on from the passenger side. The assumption is the ignition would be turned on and off from the drivers seat, so turning the lights off would only occur if the drivers door is opened, not the passenger door. My MINI did this same thing. Just a BMW thing.
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      12-20-2012, 01:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin
My car has CA.

With engine off

1) Enter car through front passenger door.
2) Press Start button once to activate entertainment system.
3) Press Start button once to deactive entertainment system.
4) Leave car through passenger door. Don't lock. In my case car is garage parked so no need to lock.

Angel eyes and tail lamps will not shut off. I gave up waiting after 15 minutes and just locked car with remote which shut off all lights.

Tried above a second time and had same result. This time I opened/closed drivers door after 10 minutes and exterior lights shut off immediately.

has nothing to do with key being too close to car. I moved it well away and nothing changed.

Seems like a bug. Beware as you don't want a dead battery in the AM.

Anyone else?
This is no bug. This is a safety feature.

By exiting the drivers side door you have confirmed to the vehicles logic that the driver is no longer in the car. Thus, the system is free to extinguish the lights.

By your exiting the passenger side door, the vehicle thinks the driver is still in the car. So, the vehicle will take steps to keep the parking lamps on indefinitely. This is for your protection.

The vehicle is designed to think that the person sitting in the drivers seat initially pressed the start button. Yes, it is an assumption. However, there is no seat sensor like the passenger seat has. The car always thinks there is a driver in the drivers seat when the start button is pressed to "ignition on" or "radio ready state."

The front passenger seat has a sophisticated seat sensor to determine if the seat is occupied. The drivers seat does not have that.

The system doesn't know you are safely in the garage. So, it is lights on for safety.
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      12-20-2012, 07:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
This is no bug. This is a safety feature.

By exiting the drivers side door you have confirmed to the vehicles logic that the driver is no longer in the car. Thus, the system is free to extinguish the lights.

By your exiting the passenger side door, the vehicle thinks the driver is still in the car. So, the vehicle will take steps to keep the parking lamps on indefinitely. This is for your protection.

The vehicle is designed to think that the person sitting in the drivers seat initially pressed the start button. Yes, it is an assumption. However, there is no seat sensor like the passenger seat has. The car always thinks there is a driver in the drivers seat when the start button is pressed to "ignition on" or "radio ready state."

The front passenger seat has a sophisticated seat sensor to determine if the seat is occupied. The drivers seat does not have that.

The system doesn't know you are safely in the garage. So, it is lights on for safety.
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not on board.

The car surely knows there's no one in the drivers seat. The car was previously off for probably 2 hours and the only door opened was the passenger door. Not too much trouble for the car to assume no driver if that door wasn't opened. Plus I walked away with the key so the CA system knows no key is in range.

Regardless, driver or no driver, leaving the lights on indefinitely is....dumb.

What is the true safety feature involved here? Obviously lighting provides a level of safety, but a dead battery in the AM is worse IMO.

My son likes to jump in the car and use the iDrive. It was never a problem on my 2010 E90 but this car seems to act differently.

Would the angel eyes and rear lamps really stay on indefinitely? I gave up waiting after 15 minutes.
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      12-20-2012, 07:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
This is no bug. This is a safety feature.

By exiting the drivers side door you have confirmed to the vehicles logic that the driver is no longer in the car. Thus, the system is free to extinguish the lights.

By your exiting the passenger side door, the vehicle thinks the driver is still in the car. So, the vehicle will take steps to keep the parking lamps on indefinitely. This is for your protection.

The vehicle is designed to think that the person sitting in the drivers seat initially pressed the start button. Yes, it is an assumption. However, there is no seat sensor like the passenger seat has. The car always thinks there is a driver in the drivers seat when the start button is pressed to "ignition on" or "radio ready state."

The front passenger seat has a sophisticated seat sensor to determine if the seat is occupied. The drivers seat does not have that.

The system doesn't know you are safely in the garage. So, it is lights on for safety.
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not on board.

The car surely knows there's no one in the drivers seat. The car was previously off for probably 2 hours and the only door opened was the passenger door. Not too much trouble for the car to assume no driver if that door wasn't opened. Plus I walked away with the key so the CA system knows no key is in range.

Regardless, driver or no driver, leaving the lights on indefinitely is....dumb.

What is the true safety feature involved here? Obviously lighting provides a level of safety, but a dead battery in the AM is worse IMO.

My son likes to jump in the car and use the iDrive. It was never a problem on my 2010 E90 but this car seems to act differently.

Would the angel eyes and rear lamps really stay on indefinitely? I gave up waiting after 15 minutes.
How does the car know that no one is in the drivers seat? There is no monitor like there is in the passenger seat. I suppose it could infer, in your case, that the vehicle was switched on before the driver door opened, but the vehicle doesn't look for that condition.
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      12-20-2012, 08:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
How does the car know that no one is in the drivers seat? There is no monitor like there is in the passenger seat. I suppose it could infer, in your case, that the vehicle was switched on before the driver door opened, but the vehicle doesn't look for that condition.
No door open. No CA key in range. Reasonable intelligence that would say not to leave lights on indefinitely without a charging source.

I'm just saying BMW should NEVER allow for convenience lights to stay on indefinitely. I didn't intentionally turn on the angel eyes/tail lamps. In iDrive I have the path lighting set to 40 seconds.

This is just an oversight and should be corrected. I'll notify my dealer shop foreman.

Last edited by claykin; 12-20-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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      12-20-2012, 08:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
No door open. No CA key in range. Reasonable intelligence that would say not to leave lights on indefinitely without a charging source.

I'm just saying BMW should NEVER allow for convenience lights to stay on indefinitely. I didn't intentionally turn on the angel eyes/tail lamps. In iDrive I have the path lighting set to 40 seconds.

This is just an oversight and should be corrected. I'll notify my dealer shop foreman.
Are they on indefinitely, or is there a shut down? For how long has it been tried, I gather you say after 15 minutes it wasn't off.

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      12-20-2012, 08:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Are they on indefinitely, or is there a shut down? For how long has it been tried, I gather you say after 15 minutes it wasn't off.

HighlandPete
Yup. Walked back into house and made sure CA key was at least 100 feet from car. Returned to garage 15+ minutes later without key and lights were still on. Interior lights turned off. The headlight angel eyes, trunk tail lamps and some illumination in the dash cluster were all on.

I tried this twice. Same result. The only way I found the turn off the lights is to either lock car with key/touch handle or to open/close the drivers door.

I'd like to hope the lights would eventually turn off, but I figured after 15 minutes that wasn't in the cards.
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      12-20-2012, 10:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
4) Leave car through passenger door. Don't lock. In my case car is garage parked so no need to lock.
You should still lock your car for insurance purposes.
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      12-20-2012, 11:09 AM   #10
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When I first got the car I loaded CD's into the HD while the car was off in my garage, but HK on. After a while, it gave me a Battery Low warning and shut everything down.

I would think that it will still try to save itself rather than keep the lights on. You could test it if you have another car in the garage to jump start just in case.
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      12-20-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
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I had some strange behavior (the accessories turned on while I was in the passenger seat and never hit the start/stop button) the other day when I was wiring my radar detector.

Not sure what was triggering the car to start, but it was pretty strange. I was also in the passenger seat and getting in and out so the lights wouldn't turn off, I just had to turn the dial to get them off.

I'd just get in the habit of locking the car.
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      12-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnook View Post
You should still lock your car for insurance purposes.
+1. i always lock all my cars even in my garage. i even club them and hide all the keys. dont want someone strolling in and just picking up keys and driving off with one of my cars.
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      12-20-2012, 03:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnook View Post
You should still lock your car for insurance purposes.
+1

besides you have CA. Its not like you need to take your keys out to get in the car anyways.
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      12-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnook View Post
You should still lock your car for insurance purposes.
Its in my locked garage.

Lets stay on topic here. Its not about my garage and/or whether you think I should lock my car while in my locked private garage. This is about a software glitch that can leave you with a dead battery.
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      12-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #15
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I'd quote Bill Gates here:
"it's not a bug, it's a feature".

Or Steve Job for the antenna gate: you entered the car the wrong way ( as to holding the phone wrong)

Or BMW: get a right-hand drive version.

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      12-20-2012, 07:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howiegu View Post
I'd quote Bill Gates here:
"it's not a bug, it's a feature".

Or Steve Job for the antenna gate: you entered the car the wrong way ( as to holding the phone wrong)

Or BMW: get a right-hand drive version.

-
Thats pretty much the response I expect. But I'm fairly sure given enough time, they'll include a fix in one of their future software updates. For now I know I need to work around their mistakes.
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      12-20-2012, 09:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Its in my locked garage.
I've had people break into my locked garage. Just sayin.
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      12-20-2012, 09:44 PM   #18
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I've had people break into my locked garage. Just sayin.
Thats an discussion to what my original post is about.
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      12-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Thats an discussion to what my original post is about.
No, it's on topic. You're claiming its a BUG, which means unintentional. BMW intended it, because they expect everyone to LOCK their car when exiting. Honestly, it's not like nowdays you have to stick a key in a hole and turn it to unlock again. One press, or better yet with premium just touch the fking handle and it unlocks.

We are trying to prove to you that since everyone SHOULD lock their car, this is NOT a bug but rather a design.
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      12-20-2012, 10:13 PM   #20
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No, it's on topic. You're claiming its a BUG, which means unintentional. BMW intended it, because they expect everyone to LOCK their car when exiting. Honestly, it's not like nowdays you have to stick a key in a hole and turn it to unlock again. One press, or better yet with premium just touch the fking handle and it unlocks.

We are trying to prove to you that since everyone SHOULD lock their car, this is NOT a bug but rather a design.
In your head BMW intends to punish people (with a dead battery) because they don't follow your irrationality and lock their car when there's no need to in a secure garage.

WRONG. Drive on please.
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      12-20-2012, 10:21 PM   #21
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Gotta agree with tsuyoi. It's not a bug. A bug would be something that has gone wrong. The car is designed to shut it all off on the locking of the vehicle...
At best it's just a gripe you have.
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      12-20-2012, 10:28 PM   #22
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Gotta agree with tsuyoi. It's not a bug. A bug would be something that has gone wrong. The car is designed to shut it all off on the locking of the vehicle...
At best it's just a gripe you have.
Really? I follow above using drivers door. Not locked. Lights all shut off.
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