[Vector Pilot]

Originally Posted by Antares

I was told that here in Europe the price is going to be only slightly less compared to the 5er limousine with the same engine.
Explanation: Mercedes is selling the E Coupe (technically a C Class) for substantially more money compared to the 3 series Coupe. The "4" name should fix this margin-earning and image problem.

Let me see if I understand what they're saying. Is BMW going to increase prices on the new 4 series so they can create a new consumer niche and in turn surrender it's market share [selling entry level coupes] to Audi and Mercedes? With all due respect, that does not make sense.
Highest Regards!

[SD Z4MR]

Originally Posted by nenadbogar

haha yeah that guys is huge. i was thinking did they make this car smaller

That's exactly the first thought I had!

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I had no idea that the car was caught in this stage of undress given that the FEP cars are now publically driving around Munich.

The announcement of the BMW 4er ushers in a new era for BMW in regards to the positioning of its best selling Coupe model and of course the demise of the 3er as a Coupe.

Open minded?
Some accept that the car will be called the 4er due to the demands of the market. Some are still stuck in the way that they will debadge , replace the badge and some will not even look at it because it is a 4er.
But we all know that they will end up behind the wheel.

It is evolutionary but the proportions have been played with , the sleeker outline moves the car further away from the 3er in both stature and the all important price.

Physically with the exterior you are talking about one or two areas that are shared with the sedan. It also allows the viewer to now imagine the missing jigsaw piece the 2er which gets a similar sportier outline but in more compact proportions.

With the 4er it is all about positioning. The car justifies its market by extending exclusivity in the segment , style is important as a key distinguishing point . But for the engineers there is also the justification for making the car drive as well as it looks and seperate it from the core 3er Sedan. in other words look for a new level of dynamics compared to the Audi A5 and Mercedes-Benz C-Klasse.

Of course there will be a new challenger in the guise of the Lexus IS coupe which shows that Lexus want their US no 1 position back and judging by what is on the table in Tokyo in regards to mid-sized and smaller SUVs and Coupes, this time they mean business.

The Concept car of the Coupe will be shown in January , it will also show in Geneva.
The production car I heard today is heading to the Shanghai Autoshow in May as BMW aim to change the perception of the designated 4 with the new car in China where BMW have again outpaced Audi and Mercedes-Benz considerably.

I have heard that Chris Bangle has even given the car the thumbs up from a design point of view.

Hey Scott,

So what ur saying is that most likely, for those who will be wanting to replace their e92/93 and stay in the same budget ... BMW is essentially expecting to knock them down in the new 2er? Sounds like instead of rewarding such a loyal fan base for their dedication to the 2-door 3 series, theyre takin it away and moving it "up" for more exclusive clientele while others will be downgraded to a smaller "3er coupe wanna-be" (cause lets face it, the 2er will never be seen as a 3-series coupe comparison)

is that right?

im in neither pool, but i used to be when owning my e46. since then ive been in the 4 door arena but i was considering this car. now it may be too pricey. anyway, interesting ...

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by e1000

For the 3, 5, and 7 series sedans, yes this lines up, but the coupes don't line up as directly as your comparison states. The C207 E-Class coupe is built on a C-class chassis with a E-Class stylized body and interior. Nothing has changed in this regard from the W208 and W209 CLK Class before it. Same principle.

You can't really compare the E-Class coupe directly to the 6-series. For one thing, the base price of a 6-series is about 20K more than an E-Class coupe, and the 6 is nearly 8 inches longer (heh). IMO, the 3-coupe (E92) and now the 4 series will compete with both the C-class coupe and E-Coupe, depending on options, trim, and engine. 6 will compete with the CLS and possibly the CL on a very limited basis.

Originally Posted by Antares

I'm sorry but you fell victim to marketing.

C class platform serves to two coupes; the "cheap looking" C class Coupe and the E class coupe. E class coupe is 100% C class.

CLS was from the first series an E class with a nicer shell; one of the most profitable cars for Mercedes. (very high profit margin).

The new 4Coupe is going to compete with the E class Coupe. The 4Coupe with the "Line option" is going to cost more than the actual 5 series.

The new 2Coupe is going to be moved upmarket and priced only some 2.500 $ under the 3 series sedan.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware the E Class Coupe was sharing a platform with the C Class Coupe. I know the CLS is based on the E, so I threw it in there to compare with the 6 series Gran Coupe. I just realized I forgot to include the CL in my comparison.

[Auto]

This car is going to lock sick with m-pack!!!

[Antares]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Let me see if I understand what they're saying. Is BMW going to increase prices on the new 4 series so they can create a new consumer niche and in turn surrender it's market share [selling entry level coupes] to Audi and Mercedes? With all due respect, that does not make sense.
Highest Regards!

Yes; the 4-series Coupe with a selected "Line" option is going to be priced more than the current 5-series limo.
Some will argue "more stuff" on board, in this price equation, however the price is going up.

BMW has a different calculation; the ones that "economize" are expected to buy the practical 3 series, the others are expected to go for exclusivity. In Europe such cars are 80% on Leasing where the rate does not change that much; better resale value,...

The ones looking on the price, should go for the 2 series Coupe that is moving upmarket (both in dimensions and in price).

[e1000]

Originally Posted by Antares

I was told that here in Europe the price is going to be only slightly less compared to the 5er limousine with the same engine.
Explanation: Mercedes is selling the E Coupe (technically a C Class) for substantially more money compared to the 3 series Coupe. The "4" name should fix this margin-earning and image problem.

The only problem I have with this explanation is that this has been going on for many generations. Before the E-Coupe there was the CLK which really was marketed more as an E-coupe than a C-coupe. The body styling, interior and engine options of the CLK always followed the E-Class, not C. The C-class never really had a coupe until lately.

The real problem is this:

4-series = C-Coupe/E-Coupe
6-series = no MB equivalent
6-series GC = CLS
no BMW equivalent = CL

The 4-series will still run the spectrum between the E-Coupe. MB has never really competed with the lower end 3-series coupe variants until lately. BMW has never competed with the upper end CLK (and lately E-coupe). Remember, there was a CLK500, which never really had an answer from BMW.

[Antares]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware the E Class Coupe was sharing a platform with the C Class Coupe.

That's why premium automakers have a premium advertising budget.

At the time many here in Europe smirked at the E-Coupe class branding of a C class platform; a river of comments was going into the direction "Mercedes = rip off".

Especially since the majority made just the same comparison that is going here today; a technically equivalent BMW 3-Coupe is a lot cheaper (and drives far better).

Then Audi came with the A5 prices and BMW marketing decided.... (you can imagine what).

Anyway, today an icon 3-Coupe died on the altar of marketing.

[Robert]

440i huh? It has a 4.0L turbo I6? BMW and its new naming schemes

[red-sauerkraut]

Originally Posted by cs4444

Looks like there is an X4 (7th pic) under a cover in the trailer also...

Bingo!

[e1000]

Originally Posted by Antares

That's why premium automakers have a premium advertising budget.

At the time many here in Europe smirked at the E-Coupe class branding of a C class platform; a river of comments was going into the direction "Mercedes = rip off".

Especially since the majority made just the same comparison that is going here today; a technically equivalent BMW 3-Coupe is a lot cheaper (and drives far better).

Then Audi came with the A5 prices and BMW marketing decided.... (you can imagine what).

Anyway, today an icon 3-Coupe died on the altar of marketing.

Again, don't understand this a bit. CLK has always started at the upper end of the C-class sedan spectrum, and then always inherited the upper end E-class engine options. It was ALWAYS based on the C-class underpinnings, but always had more E-class centric features. Mercedes only changed the name, that's it. Is the problem with understanding that the name used to start with a C? Glad they didn't decide to call it a ELK!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by HREM3

Price Is going to be a huge ??.

M3 Base? = 65k?
M4 Base? = 75k?
M4 GC Base? = 80k?

That's going to be the problem for me--these prices are getting effing crazy.

I like how this looks, but I just can't see spending 1K or more a month on a car. The side view is really good tho...it looks smaller than the E92 below it

Plus, that little "Sport" thing on the side looks REALLY cheap.

[Blindside_137]

Loving the aggressiveness!! Especially the window kink. Not a fan of the fender though but I'm planning to get the M when the lci version comes out. Looks like a mean starting point for an M4. Can't wait to see more.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by cs4444

Looks like there is an X4 (7th pic) under a cover in the trailer also...

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Bingo!

It's a 3 Series GT.

[宝马.e90]

Originally Posted by Robert

440i huh? It has a 4.0L turbo I6? BMW and its new naming schemes

Naming doesn't really mean anything outside of model association. Model number hasn't been associated with displacement for quite a while now. It just looks weird with all those 4's.

[Antares]

Originally Posted by e1000

The only problem I have with this explanation is that this has been going on for many generations. Before the E-Coupe there was the CLK which really was marketed more as an E-coupe than a C-coupe. The body styling, interior and engine options of the CLK always followed the E-Class, not C. The C-class never really had a coupe until lately.

The real problem is this:

4-series = C-Coupe/E-Coupe
6-series = no MB equivalent
6-series GC = CLS
no BMW equivalent = CL

The 4-series will still run the spectrum between the E-Coupe. MB has never really competed with the lower end 3-series coupe variants until lately. BMW has never competed with the upper end CLK (and lately E-coupe). Remember, there was a CLK500, which never really had an answer from BMW.

There is a small problem with this reasoning.
You're mixing in the same pot two concepts; technical-production and completely different marketing and target audience (last was in past much more different then today; between BMW and Mercedes).

Mercedes price list was always more than BMW (same car, engine). For fleet cars the final Mercedes price can be lower than BMW. However Mercedes had once many private customers.
Second; Mercedes cars customers are really old; it's a car for people in retirement. (average customer age in Germany; even in China Mercedes stands for old people).
CLK was the same marketing approach as the CLS based on E class; I'm not going to write on profit margin. Some people at BMW almost died from salivating at the thought.

BMW 3 Coupe was standing once for "young affluent people"; it was cheaper and very in demand. Since men don't want to age, lots of customers was middle aged.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by MrClean335i

incorrect

2 series --> C Class Coupe --> Audi ??
4 series --> E Class Coupe --> Audi A5
6 series --> CLS --> Jaguar XK --> Audi A7

Incorrect again.

2 Series -> A or B Class (i'm not sure) -> Audi A1 or A3 (once again not sure)
4 series -> C Class Coupe -> Audi A5
6 Series -> CL Class Coupe -> Audi doesn't make a big coupe
6 Series GC -> CLS Class "Coupe" -> A7

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Let me see if I understand what they're saying. Is BMW going to increase prices on the new 4 series so they can create a new consumer niche and in turn surrender it's market share [selling entry level coupes] to Audi and Mercedes? With all due respect, that does not make sense.
Highest Regards!

BMW knows what it's doing as they have done this before... with the Z4 sales failure.

They pushed the Z4 from the "premium Miata" bracket to the Boxster market and it just died...

Now they want the 3-Series Coupe customer to downgrade in masse to the new 2-Series Coupe, and the M3 guys to the new M2. If the current M3 have had lackluster sales at $70,000 average prices since introdution (remember the 100,000 unit production-run estimate? I bet that not even 50,000 have been sold to date) then I do not want to know what's going to happen with a $80,000 M4 sales figures...

[e92_m3]

Originally Posted by nbennettksu

that thing on the fender, to me, looks out of place... it doesnt flow with anything on the body. smh

Was thinking the same thing.

Also the "sport" badge made it look cheesy. So out of place as well.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

At least the vent is functional instead of some tacky stick on.

We have to wait and see. It is not functional in the E9X M3, but was functional in the E46 M3.

[nbennettksu]

Originally Posted by e92_m3

Was thinking the same thing.

Also the "sport" badge made it look cheesy. So out of place as well.

Yes! It looks like one of the Pep-Boys fender stick-on things.

[vladberca]

E Class and Clk is/ was based on C Class platform but has E Class engines and design..
I also think that the next 2 series will have a better succes and will sell more than 4 series due to more attractive price, but also good quality and performance!