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      10-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
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Anybody else find it cute Audi had to create the S line?

335i vs S4...
People think because its an "S" its a million times better, which its not... at all. I find it hilarious how the S competes with the 335i, not even the M3

What do you guys think?
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      10-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #2
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      10-28-2012, 04:46 PM   #3
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No, because I'm sure no one thinks the M-Sport is a million times better than the "normal" 3....
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      10-28-2012, 04:48 PM   #4
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S Line != S Program
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      10-28-2012, 05:26 PM   #5
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When I see an "S" it's just road kill to me.
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      10-28-2012, 05:39 PM   #6
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"S Line" is used for the last year of a model before a body change. Models that start with S are akin to MSport I suppose. However in the case of Audi they give it more juice, something BMW doesn't.
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      10-28-2012, 05:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by claykin View Post
"S Line" is used for the last year of a model before a body change
Umm, no. S Line is a trim level, like "Sport" for BMW. The S models like S3, S4, S5, S6, S7 and S8 are distinct models that have upgraded drivetrains and suspension and generally come about a year or so after a model update. The RS models are the ones that come last.....generally only for a year or two as they're pretty special.
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      10-28-2012, 06:00 PM   #8
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      10-28-2012, 06:07 PM   #9
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S-line is actually more like the m-sport pack on the 3 series. So you can get an A4 2.0T prestige s-line, which adds things like black headliner, black window surrounds / grill , s-line seats with alcantera , s-line 19" rims etc. same suspension as the normal sport pack though (i know this becuase I have a sport pack A4 right now)

Now there are the S series cars which they seem to call their midlevel cars but only on some models. with audi, they call the S4 the S4 and not say the A4 3.0 T or something (and in other countries they do have an A4 3.0T which has like 270hp unlike in the US).

it does sort of make marketing sense since BMW uses numerical model designations and audi doesnt, it sort of just looks nicer. I mean A4 2.0 , A4 3.2 , A4 3.0T (270hp) and A4 (3.0T 333 hp if we were going with this scheme) is probably just harder to market than S4 or A4 (at lesat in america where theres really only one model for each).

Or their scheme could just be nonsensical. the Q7 has 2 3.0T variants in america, the 272 and 333 hp. but its not an SQ7 or something.

That said every company has weird marketing inconsistancies. BMW seems to be changing some of them with the 4 series (i mean if coupes really are even numbers like z4, 6 series etc) . but they are adding even more with weird stuff like all the grand coupes . I mean the newest 740i and 640i have the same N55 engine as say the 335i but it gets a 40i. and they rated them higher, without really doing much becuase its underrated in the 335i. and i guess 735i doesn't look good?

I mean, the 2006 E90 325i had a n52 that made 215 hp. the 2007 328i had basically the same engine with absolutely no difference and they called it 230hp and a 328i.

blame it on marketing and product management.
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      10-28-2012, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ftw View Post
335i vs S4...
People think because its an "S" its a million times better, which its not... at all.
Just like people think that its a 335i and its a million times better than the 328i, but its not

BTW, only people who dont know cars thinks that.
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      10-28-2012, 06:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
S-line is actually more like the m-sport pack on the 3 series. So you can get an A4 2.0T prestige s-line, which adds things like black headliner, black window surrounds / grill , s-line seats with alcantera , s-line 19" rims etc. same suspension as the normal sport pack though (i know this becuase I have a sport pack A4 right now)

Now there are the S series cars which they seem to call their midlevel cars but only on some models. with audi, they call the S4 the S4 and not say the A4 3.0 T or something (and in other countries they do have an A4 3.0T which has like 270hp unlike in the US).

it does sort of make marketing sense since BMW uses numerical model designations and audi doesnt, it sort of just looks nicer. I mean A4 2.0 , A4 3.2 , A4 3.0T (270hp) and A4 (3.0T 333 hp if we were going with this scheme) is probably just harder to market than S4 or A4 (at lesat in america where theres really only one model for each).

Or their scheme could just be nonsensical. the Q7 has 2 3.0T variants in america, the 272 and 333 hp. but its not an SQ7 or something.

That said every company has weird marketing inconsistancies. BMW seems to be changing some of them with the 4 series (i mean if coupes really are even numbers like z4, 6 series etc) . but they are adding even more with weird stuff like all the grand coupes . I mean the newest 740i and 640i have the same N55 engine as say the 335i but it gets a 40i. and they rated them higher, without really doing much becuase its underrated in the 335i. and i guess 735i doesn't look good?

I mean, the 2006 E90 325i had a n52 that made 215 hp. the 2007 328i had basically the same engine with absolutely no difference and they called it 230hp and a 328i.

blame it on marketing and product management.
no, s line is like the m line. not the m-sport line, the s4 has much higher performing car than an a4, as is the m3 is much better than a 335, in some aspects. the s package, is like the m sport package. just visual stuff, what im trying to say is that audi has a whole performance line that competes with bmw's "middle" model, the 335. too slow for m3, too fast for 328.
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      10-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGT View Post
Umm, no. S Line is a trim level, like "Sport" for BMW. The S models like S3, S4, S5, S6, S7 and S8 are distinct models that have upgraded drivetrains and suspension and generally come about a year or so after a model update. The RS models are the ones that come last.....generally only for a year or two as they're pretty special.
forgot the upgraded performance aspect, m is the s of audi..
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      10-28-2012, 06:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
No, because I'm sure no one thinks the M-Sport is a million times better than the "normal" 3....
m sport is nothing like the s line. the s line is like the m line, not m sport. an f10 m5 and a f10 535i with an m sport package are completely different cars.
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      10-28-2012, 06:30 PM   #14
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We've got BMW's. That's what matters. The Audi owners made a mistake that they can fix when they get a new car.
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      10-28-2012, 06:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ftw View Post
What do you guys think?
If find it cute so many 3 series owners are obsessed with Audis.
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      10-28-2012, 07:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fshubert View Post
We've got BMW's. That's what matters. The Audi owners made a mistake that they can fix when they get a new car.
Audi makes a great car. We had a hard time deciding between the 328 and S4.
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      10-28-2012, 07:13 PM   #17
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I think a few of you are getting confused (understandably!) by the very confusing, misleading and generally bizarre title of the thread

S-Line is nothing more than a trim level on Audis and is a direct comparison to the M Sport line on BMWs. It's just bigger wheels and gay styling on an Audi unlike the slightly more manly and purposeful M Sport package.

Some of you are then saying that the "S" line of cars are akin to the "M" line of cars. This is again nonsense. M cars are BMW Skunkworks monsters and Audi's S cars are just sportier versions of the standard cars and there is no obvious comparison with Audi and BMW when it comes to cars like the S3, S4 and S5. Now the RS cars, on the other hand are Audi Skunkworks cars and Audi only ever used to produce one model at a time (only very recently changed) and they are every bit as good (some better!) than the equivalent M cars coming out of Munich. An RS4 is every bit as good as the M3 of its day and the current RS5 is every bit as good as the current M3 Coupe in the same way that the C63 AMG is, albeit they are all different in their own right. The RS6 is again an awesome piece of kit.

And for what it's worth, the misleadingly called "S line" of the thread title ... has been around for decades so it's not like Audi suddenly had to create it to respond to something. My Sister had an S3 in the 90s. It was only a 1.8T if I remember correctly but back then it was rapid and most desirable. I also remember a friend of mine's Dad had an S4 around the same time. That was a V6 BiTurbo and a beasty!

I do think, though, that there has been a slight convergence in this generation which is why some people have been comparing the 335i to the S4 but I can't remember a generation where that was ever previously the case. It's probably since Audi dropped the thirsty 3.2 Quattro from their range of most cars in search of greener credentials since that was always the direct comparison with the equivalent BMW 6 pot and when Audi gave their six cylinder a make-over they went a bit more overboard than BMW and created something more akin to their old S Models so the only petrol 6cyl 4-series Audi is now called the S4. The last gen S4 had a 4.2 V8 and sat along side 1.8T and 3.2 petrol variants in the A4 whereas now, VAG cars are all blown and they have different variants of the TFSI engines, that being two 1.8l and a 2.0l in the A4 range. There is no longer a V6 A4 since the 2.0 TFSI is every bit as good as the old 3.2l (apart from the sound) and drinks less fuel, in the same way that the new 328i is a blown 2.0l and a very good car. If you want a V6 in an A4 now, you go for the 3.2 TFSI which is supercharged, you get Quattro, sports suspension and some styling and it's called the S4. BMW don't do this and I don't think the 335i and S4 are apples and apples. The S4 is a higher spec car than the 335i and more expensive to boot. If you had a 335i xDrive with the M Sport package and some toys then maybe ... you're looking at BMW's S4

So the moral of the story is that "S-Line" is a trim level and Audi haven't created their range of "S" Cars in response to anything: they've been around for years
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      10-28-2012, 07:32 PM   #18
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Nothing against the Audi. Nothing against a Yugo. There's a ride for everybody. I looked at Audi before. Not even close. Everyone on this "F30 POST" is here for a reason....most because they have a BMW. Otherwise, those who love Audi can find an Audi site to adore.
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      10-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #19
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Audi and BMW, and every model they make, are as equally matched as any two car makers. Their products are VERY similar, despite the cool-aid drinking fanboy rants that happen on here. Style is subjective, but even that isn't as night and day as some like to think. I've had several of each, more BMW's than Audi's and if I ever had to pick one to stick with, I'd pick BMW. But I'm thankful that I do not have to, and that these two great car companies compete every day to give us great cars and great alternatives to each other.

Sorry, but anyone that really thinks either is miles ahead of they other is either delusional or just doesn't know cars as well as they want to think they do. The confusion in this thread and lack of understanding of the difference between an S car and an S-line, and which Audi's compete with which BMW's just shows how little some know about either brand and their products.
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      10-28-2012, 08:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fshubert View Post
Nothing against the Audi. Nothing against a Yugo. There's a ride for everybody. I looked at Audi before. Not even close. Everyone on this "F30 POST" is here for a reason....most because they have a BMW. Otherwise, those who love Audi can find an Audi site to adore.
The S-Line is only a trim that is comparable to that of M-Sport and is no more purposeful than the ladder other than aesthetics. I smirk at the immaturity of Audi hate on this forum...but alas it's a BMW forum. Hey, I own an F30 M-Sport but I'm not a hater. I prefer the drivability of BMWs overall but, being subjective for a bit here, I believe that the design DNA has really been inconsistent and sometimes just downright horrible...new F20's anyone? Considering the F30 got bigger, softer, and quieter, they did a good job with the front end design language (outside of the pegasus wings LED backsides that they all share) and I hope it trickles back to the other series as well. Perhaps through LCI's shortly.

Whatever the case, there is a reason BMW is sending thousands of their cars from europe to china and US...they can't sell them there. I go to europe often and drive through most of europe and the road is indeed dominated by Audi's in all shapes and sizes. There's a reason they eat those cars up despite the weaker powerplants and less intuitive steering...it's simply a sign of the times...People are moving on.

Remember when GenX guys, like me, coveted BMW's in the 80's only because they didn't want to be like their rich older Uncle or Dad driving Lexus's and Benzo's? They wanted to find their own way when they became successful themselves and that's really what built the BMW brand in america. Those GenXr's are loyal and still buying the BMW's...and they're older, which means BMW's are getting bigger and more comfortable for them and trying to sustain new blood for the younger market with cars like the 1 series. Too bad America, China, and The Middle East are some of the most Brand Snob countries in the world. Audi is the new response to the changing culture. They are marketed better, looks more prestigious on the road and are the godfathers of the cheesy, but eye-catching, fad of LED running lights. Ugh. Can you count how many other brand names are copying? Take a run over to the middle east and the ones who can afford these cars are not itching for BMW's, I can tell you that...Audi's are the prize there, for the most part, outside of supercars.

When I see a new 5 drive by a new A6 I can't help but feel the 5 looks a little cheap next to the fanciness of the Audi. The shape may be boring but its more than just the sum of its parts. I still drive my A3 daily and enjoy the heck out of it. It still holds its looks, has decent mileage, is quick, and utilitarian to boot. I wish I waited a bit in the past for the S-Line and all the shiny black bits, and what not, but I'm more than happy with it as is. Yes, Audi's are not, generally, as dynamically fun to drive and yes, for some, Audi's are simply like Indie Hipster cars to them and are too bias to just be a car enthusiast and see what is happening...that is fine. I, for one, enjoy the heck out of both brands.
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      10-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Audi and BMW, and every model they make, are as equally matched as any two car makers. Their products are VERY similar, despite the cool-aid drinking fanboy rants that happen on here. Style is subjective, but even that isn't as night and day as some like to think. I've had several of each, more BMW's than Audi's and if I ever had to pick one to stick with, I'd pick BMW. But I'm thankful that I do not have to, and that these two great car companies compete every day to give us great cars and great alternatives to each other.

Sorry, but anyone that really thinks either is miles ahead of they other is either delusional or just doesn't know cars as well as they want to think they do. The confusion in this thread and lack of understanding of the difference between an S car and an S-line, and which Audi's compete with which BMW's just shows how little some know about either brand and their products.
Agreed
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      10-28-2012, 08:19 PM   #22
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What you say is only close to being true in this latest generation, not historically. What 3 series compares to a 2005 S4? 340bhp, 4.2l V8? Nothing. Back then, the 3.2 Quattro was the direct comparison to the top end 6 pots of the 3 series. In the same generation, the RS4 had 420bhp and a blown 4.2l V8. The S6 from the same generation had a 5.2l V8 with 435bhp and the RS6 that followed had a 5.0l V10 with 580bhp. The top end 5 series from the same generation had a 5.0l V8 with 360bhp and the M5 came out with the 5.0l V10 and 510bhp. Again, the RS versions and M cars compare and compete but the S cars never had a direct competitor.

Traditionally, the S cars from Audi have sat between the top end standard BMWs and the M cars and BMW have not had a direct competitor. This is still the case today except BMW have bridged the gap a little a the top end of their standard cars. The 335i is closer to the S4 than any previous 3 series has ever been in the same way that the 550i is closer to the S6 than any previous generation but this has only just become the case.
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