[johnbmw6]

Originally Posted by TMP

So i like the noise in the 330d, but it is gruff, more corse, but at least does have a nice 6cyl twang. More Manly...hmmm dont think so - its more Diesely


Although with cheaper Unleaded and the 335i achieving low-mid 40's the fuel difference is not a great as you may think.

You are joking are you not, mid 40's that would not do that down hill with the engine off.
MId 20's more like. This 328i I have loaned is doing 36MPG out of town being "Nursed" and I mean "Nursed", when I drive it like I would drive a diesel it shows 25MPG if I am lucky.

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by zltm089

You have a weird taste!....

Serious question: do you like Justin Bieber?

Unless, its HotCoupe's 335D (modded exhaust)....I can't see how a std 330D sounds better than a 335i.

The way the n54 delivers the power is one of its best attributes!...good torque at low revs to give you that "kick" and power throughout the rev range.....especially mid range....definitely the diesel will have more torque but sorry mate, 335i engine all day long over a 330D!!! ( I'm talking about engine performance and noise only....reliability is another topic! )

330d quicker than 335i...

I don't even know who Justin Bieber is

And I'm talking about normal driving conditions. For 95% of driving, the 30D does sound better and go better than the 35i. Between 1000 and 3000 rpm it has a nicer, more bassy rumble, more useable power and returns better mpg. I'm not denying that on full reheat the 35i is the nicer engine in every way but to enjoy what it does better than the 30D, you'd have to be getting less than 20mpg average and driving pretty hard. The 30D can do 20mpg at 155mph

[willhollin]

I'd bet the 330d is better than the M135i in pretty much all aspects as well.

[TMP]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

As in ... it's a lot less car. You know - there's less car. It's a 1 series which is basically a hot hatch, right? Not the newer, bigger, fatter, softer F30. I just meant you're always gonna have less car between you and the chassis; between you and the dynamics and the engine and whatnot so it'll always be a more visceral experience, like for like.

You'll hear more of the induction note because you're closer to the front with less "stuff" between you and the intakes. You'll hear more of the echaust note because you're closer to the rear ... 'cause it's smaller. You know: it's just a lot less car

It's only a could of CMs shorter wheel base, but yes it is a smaller car.

So surpirse surprise my car engine does not sound like a diesel when started! No 'Dag Dag Dag' and no rattle

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

You are joking are you not, mid 40's that would not do that down hill with the engine off.
MId 20's more like. This 328i I have loaned is doing 36MPG out of town being "Nursed" and I mean "Nursed", when I drive it like I would drive a diesel it shows 25MPG if I am lucky.

Maybe this is where the 335i on cruise is more economical then the 28i.
http://cars.uk.msn.com/blog/inside-t...8-fa83cfbfbe08

The M135i is getting low 40s on mway cruise as well.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My F11 is no way sounding like a diesel on start up, there is hardy any DI sound at all from the engine. It is much more refined on start up that any diesel, and once warm no comparison in any way to any N57 diesel I've driven.

Both my son and I drive BMW 3.0d engines (single and bi-turbo) and when I took my son out in the F11, from start up he was saying "now this is what a BMW engine should be like". It is the near silence, the refinement, vibration free running throughout the rev range.

Now I totally go along with the diesel engine performance feel, been there, driven loads of them. The 330d/530d have a good engine, I don't think anyone will dispute that fact. The 335i/535i engine delivery is not a 'second best' IMO, 'different' as I've said before, but with years of BMW driving it is one of the best BMW engines I've ever driven, (we are not comparing M-cars here) and oozes BMW refinement. But I've been spoiled with a BMW 4.4 V8, that may partly explain why a petrol has more appeal to me, even with the excellent BMW diesel engines.

HighlandPete

Perhaps we have a more balanced view. 35i is not perfect and better than 30d in some ways. And vice versa for the 30d

[MaestroAl]

Why I oughta put you over my knee and spank yo' ass. In a purely parental way, you understand, not ... you know ... gay or owt.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

You are joking are you not, mid 40's that would not do that down hill with the engine off.
MId 20's more like. This 328i I have loaned is doing 36MPG out of town being "Nursed" and I mean "Nursed", when I drive it like I would drive a diesel it shows 25MPG if I am lucky.

I'm not doubting your figures here, but if you are 'nursing' the engine, I'm surprised you are so low. The 328i I tested was very economical on the OBC, driving the way I was driving my 330d. In fact if the OBC was accurate, at 42.4mpg after 90 miles, I was bettering the mpg driving my 330d touring in the same manner.

We need more mpg data, and that takes time and experience to get the true picture of a model's consumption. The average showing up on Honest John's Real MPG site for the 328i saloon is 38.6mpg for the auto, so setting the pattern of what it can do.

Don't forget the 6-pot petrols can deliver some impressive results when cruising at around 70mph. My 5-series will be around 40mpg at a constant 70mph.

We still haven't got much data on the 330d, but first 'longer use' postings on this site, averaged about 41mpg, didn't they? I jest, but that is giving us a clue to consumption.

The Honest John Real MPG figure for the F10 530d auto is showing 38.8mpg. What's the typical 3-series improvement on the five, for a similar engine, about 3mpg as an average?

Of course we will get the high figures, "my 330d does 50mpg", etc., but the averages are what sets the true baseline for comparing consumption.


HighlandPete

[johnbmw6]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm not doubting your figures here, but if you are 'nursing' the engine, I'm surprised you are so low. The 328i I tested was very economical on the OBC, driving the way I was driving my 330d. In fact if the OBC was accurate, at 42.4mpg after 90 miles, I was bettering the mpg driving my 330d touring in the same manner.

We need more mpg data, and that takes time and experience to get the true picture of a model's consumption. The average showing up on Honest John's Real MPG site for the 328i saloon is 38.6mpg for the auto, so setting the pattern of what it can do.

Don't forget the 6-pot petrols can deliver some impressive results when cruising at around 70mph. My 5-series will be around 40mpg at a constant 70mph.

We still haven't got much data on the 330d, but first 'longer use' postings on this site, averaged about 41mpg, didn't they? I jest, but that is giving us a clue to comsumption.

The Honest John Real MPG figure for the F10 530d auto is showing 38.8mpg. What's the typical 3-series improvement on the five, for a similar engine, about 3mpg as an average?

Of course we will get the high figures, "my 330d does 50mpg", etc., but the averages are what sets the true baseline for comparing consumption.


HighlandPete

Well when we say "average" then "how long is a piece of string?", I mean most of my driving is "out of town" I do not do much town driving at all, and traffic jams I avoid also, so my MPG is usually better than most, if I stick to 70MPH in this 328i it will show 40MPG on journeys over 30 miles, on my commute to the golf club on duel and A roads I cover 25 miles each way and the 328i shows 36 MPG each way, this is from cold not a reset.
It is impressive BUT no booting involved at all, just a cruise.
I had the 330D M Sport touring for a days drive and it showed 53MPG on the same driving areas with some Booting thrown in
So in my area with my style the diesel shows more driving grunt and way better MPG> I must be lucky to live out of town.
If I lived in London no way would I bother with any engine size above 1 litre, you just sit in first gear all day long.
My conclusion would be your MPG is only relevant to the local environment the car lives in.

[MaestroAl]

Whilst I don't yet know, I fully expect that my most common commute will return me over 50mpg once I get the 330D. I get around 25mpg in my current car so that's gonna be epic I have a ten minute drive to the M42 then a forty minute cruise on the M42 followed by a ten minute drive into south Birmingham. My second most common commute is the same to the A5 then a few junctions of the M6 Toll to Cannock so I hope to get similar mpg from that journey too. It's also motorway all the way to ten minutes from the in-laws, motorway to within fifteen minutes of my Sister's house, an A50 cruise to 5 minutes from me Mum's house. One of the main reasons we moved to Castle Donington in 2004. We live on the intersection of the M1, M42 and A50 The only awkward place to get to from here is Manchester. So we don't go

[johnbmw6]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

Whilst I don't yet know, I fully expect that my most common commute will return me over 50mpg once I get the 330D. I get around 25mpg in my current car so that's gonna be epic I have a ten minute drive to the M42 then a forty minute cruise on the M42 followed by a ten minute drive into south Birmingham. My second most common commute is the same to the A5 then a few junctions of the M6 Toll to Cannock so I hope to get similar mpg from that journey too. It's also motorway all the way to ten minutes from the in-laws, motorway to within fifteen minutes of my Sister's house, an A50 cruise to 5 minutes from me Mum's house. One of the main reasons we moved to Castle Donington in 2004. We live on the intersection of the M1, M42 and A50 The only awkward place to get to from here is Manchester. So we don't go

Yep I would think 50MPG is well in your scope with that type of driving. we will wait to see how both our cars stack up.

[MaestroAl]

Not long now. It's November

TBH, my target is 45+ for an "average" tank which will include both commuting and being a little more ... playful ... on trips out

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Well when we say "average" then "how long is a piece of string?", I mean most of my driving is "out of town" I do not do much town driving at all, and traffic jams I avoid also, so my MPG is usually better than most...

So in my area with my style the diesel shows more driving grunt and way better MPG> I must be lucky to live out of town.
If I lived in London no way would I bother with any engine size above 1 litre, you just sit in first gear all day long.
My conclusion would be your MPG is only relevant to the local environment the car lives in.

I agree, averages, driving style, etc., we can play with mpg figures all day and convince ourselves of whatever we like.

I'm in a similar position, my driving is rural and light driving conditions. So can get quite impressive figures in some of the driving. But a lot of my current driving is short trips, school runs for the grandsons, so influences the long term average. My 330d was 37mpg over 55k miles, I would call the use 'mixed' conditions. 535i is showing 31.5mpg (brim to brim) over 2k miles, so pleased with that for 'mixed' driving. Cost is about 2 pence per mile more for fuel, about 10%, (due to fuel choice, premium diesel vs. RON 97), so it is not really a cost of fuel issue.

I'd certianly not have bought the 535i if I lived in a city or dense urban environment. Same when I had the V8, I'd see high 20's even into the 30's up here, but driving in Wiltshire and around Bath with work, I'd not see 20mpg.

HighlandPete

[MaestroAl]

Hovering around the 20s is just depressing. It's what prompted me to get rid of the MPS even though I've loved this car more than any of the other twenty or so I've had.

my old man's about to retire and looking to buy his "dream car" to keep for the foreseeable future. He's currently favouring a Porsche Panamera to replace his 530DGT and whilst it's an epic car, 20mpg has gotta grate over the years ... but then you consider cruising to his house in the Dordogne in a Panamera and suddenly it makes sense

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

Hovering around the 20s is just depressing. It's what prompted me to get rid of the MPS even though I've loved this car more than any of the other twenty or so I've had.

my old man's about to retire and looking to buy his "dream car" to keep for the foreseeable future. He's currently favouring a Porsche Panamera to replace his 530DGT and whilst it's an epic car, 20mpg has gotta grate over the years ... but then you consider cruising to his house in the Dordogne in a Panamera and suddenly it makes sense

Damn you Dad has an eye for some fugly mo fo's, he just needs a Nissan Juke to achieve a 'hat trick'

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Damn you Dad has an eye for some fugly mo fo's, he just needs a Nissan Juke to achieve a 'hat trick'

He's had a stream of Range Rovers and 5 series recently and loves the GT. It is a brutish thing from behind though

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm not doubting your figures here, but if you are 'nursing' the engine, I'm surprised you are so low. The 328i I tested was very economical on the OBC, driving the way I was driving my 330d. In fact if the OBC was accurate, at 42.4mpg after 90 miles, I was bettering the mpg driving my 330d touring in the same manner.

We need more mpg data, and that takes time and experience to get the true picture of a model's consumption. The average showing up on Honest John's Real MPG site for the 328i saloon is 38.6mpg for the auto, so setting the pattern of what it can do.

Don't forget the 6-pot petrols can deliver some impressive results when cruising at around 70mph. My 5-series will be around 40mpg at a constant 70mph.

We still haven't got much data on the 330d, but first 'longer use' postings on this site, averaged about 41mpg, didn't they? I jest, but that is giving us a clue to consumption.

The Honest John Real MPG figure for the F10 530d auto is showing 38.8mpg. What's the typical 3-series improvement on the five, for a similar engine, about 3mpg as an average?

Of course we will get the high figures, "my 330d does 50mpg", etc., but the averages are what sets the true baseline for comparing consumption.


HighlandPete

The biggest factor on how economical a particular car is.....the driver.

It is amazing how two drivers can do the same trip in the same car and record wildly differing consumption figures.

I don't try to 'hypermile' any car I own. I am very good at predicting and forward thinking my drive, which saves a huge amount of fuel. My fuel consumption as a result is in the mid to high returns for a particular car. My current C220CDI merc has averaged just over 52mpg throughout it's life (50k miles), which is not in the realms of 'My 220 just did 65mpg' type headlines, but way above the average of mid 40's.

Fuel consumption, is therefore unique to the owner IMO, being plus or minus x% over/under base line figures for a particular car.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

He's had a stream of Range Rovers and 5 series recently and loves the GT. It is a brutish thing from behind though

Does he listen to 'Sir-mix-alot'? I like big butts and I cannot lie....

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

The biggest factor on how economical a particular car is.....the driver.

Good point actually - a defensive driver can probably get better mpg than a 'slow' driver.

As for slow AND defensive... probably shouldn't buy a BMW!

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Does he listen to 'Sir-mix-alot'? I like big butts and I cannot lie....

I'm sooo tellin'.

He gwan bust yoo up.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Good point actually - a defensive driver can probably get better mpg than a 'slow' driver.

Yes, meant to say that Rob.....it is not just about speed.

I understand how different my driving is when I am a passenger in with someone else (I used to do driving audits, so was often in with colleagues on drives).
For example if I am lets say 500m from a traffic light that is green, I know damn well it won't be green when I get there so automatically come of the gas. Usually, other drivers will stay on the gas, and even if the light changes to red they still stay on the gas until 'braking time'. I usually time it right so that I am still in motion by the time the light has turned to green again. This 'not stopping' technique saves a massive amount of fuel, but many drivers are oblivious to the situation just mentioned.

If people think that eco driving means going slow, they should see me enter a roundabout when there is no other cars to give way to, taken near the limit, as again, I avoid slowing too much which means I don't have to accelerate much the other side either. Acceleration is the killer of economy.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

The biggest factor on how economical a particular car is.....the driver.

It is amazing how two drivers can do the same trip in the same car and record wildly differing consumption figures.

It is said that a good driver can save up to 35% on fuel, compared to a bad driver, over the same route.

A European study on reducung fuel consumption, concluded the biggest fuel savings could be made by 'driver training' on how to drive for fuel efficiency.

So many variables, but we still read across the forums, magazines, etc., "my car doesn't get the mpg the manufacturer states....", as if there is one rate of consumption.

I still come across folks who don't grasp electrical load uses fuel.

HighlandPete

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It is said that a good driver can save up to 35% on fuel, compared to a bad driver, over the same route.

A European study on reducung fuel consumption, concluded the biggest fuel savings could be made by 'driver training' on how to drive for fuel efficiency.

So many variables, but we still read across the forums, magazines, etc., "my car doesn't get the mpg the manufacturer states....", as if there is one rate of consumption.

I still come across folks who don't grasp electrical load uses fuel.

HighlandPete

Yes, again on one of my driving audits, the driver had this habit of prodding the accelerator pedal, even on the motorway at 'constant' speeds you could feel he was on-off-on-off constantly. He happened to drive a BMW 3 325i and you could see the eco gauge flapping about in time with his foot prods. No doubt he was in the "My car doesn't get the manufacturers figures...is there something wrong with it" group.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

If people think that eco driving means going slow, they should see me enter a roundabout when there is no other cars to give way to, taken near the limit, as again, I avoid slowing too much which means I don't have to accelerate much the other side either. Acceleration is the killer of economy.

Same here, try and keep rolling.

I've driven the A82 up to Inverness (along Loch Ness) many times, in all kinds of conditions. The most economical in virtually any car, is when the road is empty and you can keep up a decent speed. Slow uses more fuel as you waste on slowing and accelerating.

As an example, when I was running a Passat TDI I did the trip several times in one week, all in similar weather conditions. One trip I didn't have any cars causing me issues, or need to slow down unnecessarily in 60 miles. So could set my pace and I returned home with a better mpg, (over 60mpg) but more importantly a much higher average speed.

HighlandPete