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      11-22-2013, 04:38 PM   #1
stevehecht
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19" wheels--what do yours weigh?

Many 19" wheels weigh 25+ lbs, but many prefer to stay under 25 lbs. with 19s. How low do you go? How much of a change can you feel on the street with 21-23 lb. wheels vs. 25-26? Besides being a helluva lot more expensive, I haven't yet found any lighter 19" wheels that suit my eye.

Last edited by stevehecht; 11-22-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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      11-22-2013, 07:30 PM   #2
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On a street car with street tires you're not going to feel a difference of 3-4 pounds. Mire important than mass is that they're forged. You'll be running such a short sidewall that you'll have exponentially more risk of bending or breaking a wheel. Forged by default are generally the lightest available as well. The downside is that they're not inexpensive.
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      11-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #3
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My fronts are 22lbs, rears about 24lbs.

You feel the reduction due to percentage decrease in unsprung weight.

Each corner was a 20% reduction.
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      11-22-2013, 08:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
On a street car with street tires you're not going to feel a difference of 3-4 pounds. Mire important than mass is that they're forged. You'll be running such a short sidewall that you'll have exponentially more risk of bending or breaking a wheel. Forged by default are generally the lightest available as well. The downside is that they're not inexpensive.
Are forged wheels specifically manufactured by particular companies, or do many manufacturers produce forged and non-forged wheels? I'm familiar with Forgeline, but what about companies like Beyern, VM (Velocity Motoring), OZ, etc. I've been doing my research and will continue to do so, but any leads would be appreciated. I notice that the Beyern Bavaria is "rotary forged," but the VM descriptions do not indicate that they are forged, AFAIK.

How does the manufacture of forged wheels differ from non-forged? Are there only these two basic types?

Last edited by stevehecht; 11-22-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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      11-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #5
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in a nutshell there are forged and there are cast wheels. There are variations of both, but they all fall under these two main classifications. Models that are forged will indicate such. BBS, Forgeline and some OEM BMW styles are what first come to mind.
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      11-22-2013, 08:35 PM   #6
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Also how much of the differences are in the tires? Thought I read that the Potenza is a bit heavier than PSS.
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      11-22-2013, 08:41 PM   #7
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The mass of tires varies significantly. Low profile run flats are pretty heavy.
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      11-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #8
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Light wheels and tires while balancing maximum quality and performance to affordability yet attractive is my #1 mission. I cringe when I see people with heavy wheels that are too wide and or height is a focus just for looks or because it's trendy.

IMO - running large wheels for looks is bad for gas mileage and performance and I don't understand why people do that to their cars. For my car I will be switching to forged BBS forged 19x8 front and 19x9 rear running non run flat tires 225/40 front & 255/35 rear resulting in a lose of 32lbs of unstrung weight and rotation mass. Gas mileage should go up by 1mpg, shed 1/10th off 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile not to mention a few feet in stoping. Also what is the purpose of stretching out tires so the rim is completely exposed?

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      11-23-2013, 10:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
On a street car with street tires you're not going to feel a difference of 3-4 pounds. Mire important than mass is that they're forged. You'll be running such a short sidewall that you'll have exponentially more risk of bending or breaking a wheel. Forged by default are generally the lightest available as well. The downside is that they're not inexpensive.
Maybe not on a 335i unless you are looking for it, but something like the BRZ yes you will feel it. And if you are driving a 750i no way
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      11-23-2013, 10:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
The mass of tires varies significantly. Low profile run flats are pretty heavy.
Yes, I will be dropping 4lbs per tire switching to non run flats and 4lbs per wheel switching to BBS forged. 8lbs x 4 corners = 32lbs of unstrung weight and rotation mass stripped from the car, that is huge!
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      11-23-2013, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehecht View Post
Many 19" wheels weigh 25+ lbs, but many prefer to stay under 25 lbs. with 19s. How low do you go? How much of a change can you feel on the street with 21-23 lb. wheels vs. 25-26? Besides being a helluva lot more expensive, I haven't yet found any lighter 19" wheels that suit my eye.
Prizaks.

BBS FIs are <20lbs iirc, and are 19". But they cost 8k for a set...
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      11-23-2013, 11:10 AM   #12
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A lot of BBS wheels are flow formed from what I know. They used to make factory wheels for BMW I believe. For a forged wheel, expect to pay at least 1k per wheel. To my knowledge, there is this sort of hierarchy (feel free to correct me)

Cheap china rep << Gravity Cast Reputable (VMR V710) << Flow Formed (BBS CH-R) <<<< Forged (HRE P40)

I have Forgestar CF5V in a 19x9.5 et 40 and they weigh in at 22.4 lbs. They are flow formed and "custom fit", which in my case wasn't hub-centric and required an adapter LOL (but I think BMW wheels do come hub-centric). Oh well, very cheap for flow formed at around 1500 for 4. Pics for proof




Reads 22.4 lbs

Last edited by drob23; 11-23-2013 at 02:54 PM.
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      11-23-2013, 11:11 AM   #13
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Because the material is higher quality, forged wheels do not need to use as much as alloy wheels to attain the same strength. This is what makes them lighter. But they are not stronger.
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      11-23-2013, 02:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
A lot of BBS wheels are flow formed from what I know. They used to make factory wheels for BMW I believe. For a forged wheel, expect to pay at least 1k per wheel. To my knowledge, there is this sort of hierarchy (feel free to correct me)

Cheap china rep << Gravity Cast Reputable (VMR V710) << Flow Formed (BBS CH-R) <<<< Forged (HRE P40).
I was on the VMR site and the V705 are low pressure cast as opposed to gravity cast. I don't know if they upgraded to this type of casting on all of their lines or just the V705 but my point is...gravity cast < low pressure cast
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      11-23-2013, 02:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamouz627 View Post
I was on the VMR site and the V705 are low pressure cast as opposed to gravity cast. I don't know if they upgraded to this type of casting on all of their lines or just the V705 but my point is...gravity cast < low pressure cast
Would be nice to find a definitive technical overview of the differences. Most of it seems like snake oil salesmanship. There are certs that are out there, but sometimes companies claim they have them while in reality the claims are false or misrepresented. There are some forum police I've seen get into it with wheel vendors.

Also, I think VMR just started selling a flow formed wheel.
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      11-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
A lot of BBS wheels are flow formed from what I know. They used to make factory wheels for BMW I believe. For a forged wheel, expect to pay at least 1k per wheel. To my knowledge, there is this sort of hierarchy (feel free to correct me)

Cheap china rep << Gravity Cast Reputable (VMR V710) << Flow Formed (BBS CH-R) <<<< Forged (HRE P40) <<<< BBS FI

I have Forgestar CF5V in a 19x9.5 et 40 and they weigh in a 22.4 lbs. They are flow formed and "custom fit", which in my case wasn't hub-centric and required an adapter LOL (but I think BMW wheels do come hub-centric). Oh well, very cheap for flow formed at around 1500 for 4.
All hail the BBS FI. That thing is amazing. 20lb for a 19".

Where do three-piece wheels like BBS LMs fit in?
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      11-23-2013, 02:32 PM   #17
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All hail the BBS FI. That thing is amazing. 20lb for a 19".

Where do three-piece wheels like BBS LMs fit in?
I don't know sir, no expert But I will say that a single BBS FI is better than 4 privat akzent's. Plus, riding on calipers is a lot less rotational mass, pneumatic tires are overrated.



This GTR ran 8 sec 1/4 mile (and really shows off sexy OJ calipers
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      11-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #18
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I don't know sir, no expert But I will say that a single BBS FI is better than 4 privat akzent's. Plus, riding on calipers is a lot less rotational mass, pneumatic tires are overrated.



This GTR ran 8 sec 1/4 mile (and really shows off sexy OJ calipers

CCBs reduce rotational mass because the brakes rotate. Right? RIGHT?!?!
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      11-23-2013, 02:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
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CCBs reduce rotational mass because the brakes rotate. Right? RIGHT?!?!
Add that they're more durable directly on asphalt. But the real enthusiast mod is the 42 wheel upgrade...can you say grip?

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      11-23-2013, 03:06 PM   #20
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Add that they're more durable directly on asphalt. But the real enthusiast mod is the 42 wheel upgrade...can you say grip?

Oh man, you just gotta love all that GRIP. Heck, that thing'll never spin out. It'll understeer quite a bit, though...
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      11-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #21
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My 19x10 rears weigh right at 23lbs. Front 19x9 just shy of 20lbs.

Pretty sure my Mich PSS 265/35s weigh more than the wheels. I think I saved about 13lbs per wheel/tire going from stock 18s with summer runflats to Morr 19s with Mich PSS tires even though they're taller and wider.

Side point, "flow formed" are the cheaper version of the high end manufacturer wheels. I think you can get a set of HRE's new flowformed wheels for about half of their forged versions. Also, not all forged wheels are created equal as I'm sure you're aware.
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      11-23-2013, 03:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gastoys
Light wheels and tires while balancing maximum quality and performance to affordability yet attractive is my #1 mission. I cringe when I see people with heavy wheels that are too wide and or height is a focus just for looks or because it's trendy.

IMO - running large wheels for looks is bad for gas mileage and performance and I don't understand why people do that to their cars. For my car I will be switching to forged BBS forged 19x8 front and 19x9 rear running non run flat tires 225/40 front & 255/35 rear resulting in a lose of 32lbs of unstrung weight and rotation mass. Gas mileage should go up by 1mpg, shed 1/10th off 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile not to mention a few feet in stoping. Also what is the purpose of stretching out tires so the rim is completely exposed?

Your right foot has the most significant impact on gas mileage. Wheel weight has a marginal impact. For street drivers, the projected gains are all anecdotal.

You also make a lot of gross assertions. Not everybody with aftermarket wheels runs a stretched tire either.
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