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      11-28-2012, 11:11 AM   #177
Cisitalia
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I am late to this party, but I am pretty shocked at all the silliness in this thread. I am a fairly staunch German car guy, but with an open mind. I have been a PCA member for 18 years and a BMWCCA member for 15 years. My two favorite cars, but I did sway with a Lotus Elise and to the other end with a Corvette Z06. So I have fairly diverse interests. I have been a club instructor for high performance driver events for numerous car clubs. So I do know a little about driving cars on race tracks and the street. But I will say the Cadillac ATS is the real deal and that scares some of the snobs posting here. They are simply in denial and don’t even know it.

I was sheeply going to get a new F30, but saw the new ATS and with open mind tested a few and even scared a couple salesman on test drives. I now am the proud owner of a 2013 ATS Premium 3.6l V6. Items that drew me to the ATS that the F30 did not have were: magnetic ride suspension, a real LSD, much better simple but elegant interior, the CUE (by the way works great) and Brembo brakes. The NA V6 is a gem and the AT and suspension in sport (manual shift) mode is an aggressive great handling car. It’s like having two different cars in one.

In summary, I vote to nominate boltjames as the BMW poster boy on why some people think BMW drivers are all “dick heads”. His attitude clearly sends the wrong message of most of BMW enthusiasts and perpetuates the “snob elitist” attitude.

Last edited by Cisitalia; 11-28-2012 at 11:18 AM. Reason: sp
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      11-28-2012, 03:19 PM   #178
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Thanks, Cisitalia. You nailed it.

Magnetic ride suspension is impressive, isn't it?
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      11-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Thanks, Cisitalia. You nailed it.

Magnetic ride suspension is impressive, isn't it?
Thanks. My first encounter with it was when I had a student with a new C6 vette that had the magnetic ride suspension. I was amazed how well composed and planted it was; the handling was great. I was looking for another daily driver and when I learned the ATS had the magnetic ride (FE3) suspension, a LSD and Brembo brakes, I knew that would be a strong contender for my next DD. That being as long as the rest of the car was up to my standards. Well in my opinion the ATS was and I am enjoying it and I like the dual personality the car exhibits from touring to sport mode.
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      11-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #180
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Thanks. My first encounter with it was when I had a student with a new C6 vette that had the magnetic ride suspension. I was amazed how well composed and planted it was; the handling was great. I was looking for another daily driver and when I learned the ATS had the magnetic ride (FE3) suspension, a LSD and Brembo brakes, I knew that would be a strong contender for my next DD. That being as long as the rest of the car was up to my standards. Well in my opinion the ATS was and I am enjoying it and I like the dual personality the car exhibits from touring to sport mode.
Well, it comforting to know I wasn't the only one to stick my neck out about the ATS. I understand people being brand loyal but to completely dismiss something without experiencing it first seems foolish to me .Like You I've had BMW's in my stable for a long time , but there have been a lot of muscle cars along the way and I currently have a CTS 3.6 sitting next to my M3. In another year or so I can see the CTS being replaced with the ATS.I drove it. It was that good. Its in its 1st year. Its only gonna get better
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      11-30-2012, 06:51 AM   #181
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that's one guys opinion. Every thing i have read about the ATS manual everyone hated it.
Well one guy who is a professional automotive journalist who has probably driven more types of cars (and manual transmissions) than you and I will in our lifetimes combined, and has driven the 328i for 6 months and 13,000 miles. A lot of knowledge comes from owning and driving a car day in and day out for 6 months. I say it more than just an opinion.
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      11-30-2012, 07:45 AM   #182
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My opinion is...it is a Cadillac. Period.

When you think cady you think grandma grandpa. For a car company to change directions and get respect right away for the new direction its chosen is far fetched. Even if it truly deserves it.

It will take some time before hard core enthusiast give it the respect it deserves.

Also it will be hard to get respect from a competitors car forum.
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      11-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #183
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Top gear UK:

F30 9/10

ATS 6/10

QED in the EU
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      11-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #184
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Top gear UK:

F30 9/10

ATS 6/10

QED in the EU
Come on man , you're quoting TOP GEAR?? These are the same people that would give a Jaguar from 10 yrs ago a 10/10.
They aren't biased at all . Especially Clarkson. Every decision I make buying a car hangs on his ever word because we all know he's a professional and would never give something a shitty ranking just cuz he doesn't like who made it
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      11-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #185
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Don't forget the Cadillac Masochist and the Estoril Purple II people.

They have feelings too, you know.

BJ
Every once and a while you manage to totally crack me up with some seemingly random harsh comment.
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      11-30-2012, 04:45 PM   #186
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Come on man , you're quoting TOP GEAR?? These are the same people that would give a Jaguar from 10 yrs ago a 10/10.
They aren't biased at all . Especially Clarkson. Every decision I make buying a car hangs on his ever word because we all know he's a professional and would never give something a shitty ranking just cuz he doesn't like who made it
Never a truer word was said in jest!
I need BJ's support.
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      11-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
Come on man , you're quoting TOP GEAR?? These are the same people that would give a Jaguar from 10 yrs ago a 10/10.
They aren't biased at all . Especially Clarkson. Every decision I make buying a car hangs on his ever word because we all know he's a professional and would never give something a shitty ranking just cuz he doesn't like who made it
Much more biased toward Mercedes than anything other German company.

They really focus on the emotion and feel, so loving autos from their country for that reason makes sense. They do like to poke fun at the US, so that could be at play, but I've certainly seen plenty of BMW people frustrated at Top Gear for not appreciating this or that vehicle.

Interestingly enough, it is the same concern with feel and difficult to quantify measures of performance, such as those that interest Clarkson in particular, that people seem to use to explain their preference for older 3 series to the F30, and thus their interest in a car that some consider truer to an e46 or whatever.

Anyway, you can be biased and still be right. Evaluate reviews for their content (supported by evidence), not the identity of the author, otherwise we can all use reviews we like and ignore the rest and all journalism is worthless.

Last edited by batislav; 11-30-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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      11-30-2012, 10:01 PM   #188
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Much more biased toward Mercedes than anything other German company.

They really focus on the emotion and feel, so loving autos from their country for that reason makes sense. They do like to poke fun at the US, so that could be at play, but I've certainly seen plenty of BMW people frustrated at Top Gear for not appreciating this or that vehicle.

Interestingly enough, it is the same concern with feel and difficult to quantify measures of performance, such as those that interest Clarkson in particular, that people seem to use to explain their preference for older 3 series to the F30, and thus their interest in a car that some consider truer to an e46 or whatever.

Anyway, you can be biased and still be right. Evaluate reviews for their content (supported by evidence), not the identity of the author, otherwise we can all use reviews we like and ignore the rest and all journalism is worthless.
I think F30AM got that what I was saying was sarcasm. We all carry bias with us ...its just a matter of how much. I just think Clarkson tends to be a little more biased then most people ,,,,,on the planet.
I fully agree I think the new 3series is better then the ATS, but the ATS is better than just a good car.Even if the the ATS was better then the 3, you'd never here it from Clarksons lips

Last edited by Reznick; 11-30-2012 at 10:06 PM. Reason: added
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      11-30-2012, 10:07 PM   #189
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Never a truer word was said in jest!
I need BJ's support.
Where did BJ go anyway??
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      11-30-2012, 10:26 PM   #190
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I think F30AM got that what I was saying was sarcasm. We all carry bias with us ...its just a matter of how much. I just think Clarkson tends to be a little more biased then most people ,,,,,on the planet.
I fully agree I think the new 3series is better then the ATS, but the ATS is better than just a good car.Even if the the ATS was better then the 3, you'd never here it from Clarksons lips
Likely true, but then only Clarkson is likely to try to tow it with a 1980's Land Rover through the everglades and need to get airlifted out. We all have our skills I guess.
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      12-01-2012, 04:37 AM   #191
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Where did BJ go anyway??
A few days ago I noticed that he's banned! Wonder why?

The ATS is a good car, no doubt. The BMW is a better car, as it stands, IMO. I far prefer the F30's styling. Clarkson is biased, absolutely, and he's quite brutally honest and hilarious in his comments. He's just sold his Company for 25-30million. Must be doing something right! I've met James May at my Hairdresser a number of times. No, my hair does not look like his. I am very well styled and groomed and don't like long locks. He drives a Porsche, I drive a Mk6 GTI at present. I will be driving my BMW very soon. My ex is in love with hers. We all need love.

Joy wins!
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      12-01-2012, 08:03 AM   #192
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A few days ago I noticed that he's banned! Wonder why?

The ATS is a good car, no doubt. The BMW is a better car, as it stands, IMO. I far prefer the F30's styling. Clarkson is biased, absolutely, and he's quite brutally honest and hilarious in his comments. He's just sold his Company for 25-30million. Must be doing something right! I've met James May at my Hairdresser a number of times. No, my hair does not look like his. I am very well styled and groomed and don't like long locks. He drives a Porsche, I drive a Mk6 GTI at present. I will be driving my BMW very soon. My ex is in love with hers. We all need love.

Joy wins!
OH there's no doubt the guy is doing something right he's managed to stay on and briefly off TV for what?? about 20+ yrs now?? He's not stupid by any means. I just find it funny that so many people take his opinion as gospel. If Clarkson said it it must be true . I guess some people don't get dry humor or sarcasm. I like Top Gear, but to me its a variety show that has cars in it as apposed to 5th gear which is an automotive show(less gimmicky & comedy...not that those are bad things. I like both shows). Sometimes I like the straight forward opinions and driving of Tiff & Viki.I'm sure I'll get slammed for suggesting Top Gear isn't THE show to watch Oh well it wouldn't be the 1st time. Won't be the last
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      12-01-2012, 09:00 AM   #193
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Just for the record, I think my 1972 Ford Pinto (a ZF 4-speed with a direct shift lever - i.e. no linkage) had better shift quality than any of my BMWs. I find that with the 6-speed in my E90 I have to concentrate too much on not money-shifting it. It has a particular affinity to try an downshift from 6th to 3rd and 5th to 2nd quite easily. I hate it.

Now my Wife's Z3, I love its shift quality.
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      12-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #194
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I've searched through the thread, but didn't see any posts about "Government Motors." There are plenty of people in the market who refuse to buy an GM product because of the way the Obama administration and the UAW **acquired** the company in 2009. We appear to be headed to bail out the company again, as they continue to lose market and money. GM has enough of my money already, and continues to produce crappy cars - no thanks.

(PS - for similar sentiments, see "Chrysler", and include "Fiat")
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      12-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #195
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I miss BJ...
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      12-01-2012, 02:50 PM   #196
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I've searched through the thread, but didn't see any posts about "Government Motors." There are plenty of people in the market who refuse to buy an GM product because of the way the Obama administration and the UAW **acquired** the company in 2009. We appear to be headed to bail out the company again, as they continue to lose market and money. GM has enough of my money already, and continues to produce crappy cars - no thanks.

(PS - for similar sentiments, see "Chrysler", and include "Fiat")
This just soooo old....

I think most of the market doesn't even know the details of the Government financing of GM, or really doesn't care (i.e. per the results of the 2012 Presidential election). GM makes as good cars as any other manufacturer, you just think they don't. But you're right there should be only one manufacturer, the Mighty BMW!

Go find out how broke BMW was in the '50s before its "bailout."
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      12-28-2012, 01:18 AM   #197
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This just soooo old....

I think most of the market doesn't even know the details of the Government financing of GM, or really doesn't care (i.e. per the results of the 2012 Presidential election). GM makes as good cars as any other manufacturer, you just think they don't. But you're right there should be only one manufacturer, the Mighty BMW!

Go find out how broke BMW was in the '50s before its "bailout."
Actually, it's still in process - taxpayers will lose about $25Billion over the next year, when the treasury sells its stake in GM stock at a 50% loss to us taxpayers (that's another $80 for each American).

As I understand it, BMW was close to bankruptcy in 1959. But they built the Isetta, which saved the company - it wasn't that the government stepped in and grabbed it from stockholders.

But you are right - no one seems to care. Perhaps we have realized that we can vote ourselves money from the treasury (who just prints more).
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      12-28-2012, 05:53 AM   #198
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I miss BJ...
Me too!
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