BMW 328i vs Cadillac ATS 2.0T - Head 2 Head Episode 17 (Motortrend) - BMW 3-Series Forum (F30 / F32)

rev7400 · 09-26-2012, 03:22 PM

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Quote:

On this episode of Head 2 Head, Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman pits the all-new Cadillac ATS against the car it was built to compete with, the dominating BMW 328i. Jonny uses test data to illustrate how similar these two cars are and then takes them out for a true drivers test on one of his favorite California back roads.

Both cars are front-engine, rear-drive sports sedans that are within an inch of one other in wheelbase, length, width, and height. The test cars are powered by a 2.0-liter turbocharged I-4 mated to a six-speed manual, however, the ATS has more grunt with 272 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. Even so, the 328i beat the ATS in the 0-60 mph test by 0.5 seconds thanks in part to the ATS’ gearing. Neither car has much of an advantage over the other, but then again, staged dynamic tests can only tell so much about a car.

Mrcarcrazy · 09-26-2012, 03:26 PM

looks like Caddy put out a decent car (at least in the eyes of that guy.) I think it's god awful ugly, but I'm not into their recent design direction, or caddy as a rule.

Showtyme5 · 09-26-2012, 04:23 PM

so I'm wondering if he'd recommend the auto ATS over the auto 328. Sounds like he would.

MaestroAl · 09-26-2012, 04:28 PM

I don't think Cadillac ever made a good car did they? In fact has the USA ever produced a good car?

PGT · 09-26-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

In fact has the USA ever produced a good car?

I traded a Benz in on my Amurrican car and am VERY happy with it (If Chrysler can still be considered that considering the Italian ownership.....). My first new car purchase (outside of two Wranglers) from the Big Three.

MaestroAl · 09-26-2012, 04:33 PM

Daimler Benz own both Mercedes and Chrysler don't they? And Jeep for that matter

MaestroAl · 09-26-2012, 04:35 PM

Oh wait, I forgot you broke the banks. Ze Germans had to sell Chrysler back to the Americans didn't they

PGT · 09-26-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

Oh wait, I forgot you broke the banks. Ze Germans had to sell Chrysler back to the Americans didn't they

that happened prior. Daimler bailed in 2007 I think? Then the collapse in 2008, the gov bought them then sold to Fiat. A mess, for sure. Good thing that they got a fresh start though....the new 300 is a great car (and you can get eurotrash Poltrano Frau leather in it

)

MaestroAl · 09-26-2012, 04:52 PM

Man, Chrysler has been on a right merry-go-round

Still can't make a decent car though

Looks like Fiat and VW own pretty much everyone this side of the pond now

bimmerjph · 09-26-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

In fact has the USA ever produced a good car?

Yes, but in fairness just about 95% of the good American cars have come from Ford's EUROPEAN Division.

TheObviousChild · 09-26-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtyme5

so I'm wondering if he'd recommend the auto ATS over the auto 328. Sounds like he would.

I kinda got the impression an AT comparrison would've tipped it more in favor of BMW. He kept gushing about the BMW 8-speed.

Photoman · 09-26-2012, 07:49 PM

Well if he actually had to spend his own money my bet is that he'd choose the Bimmer every time!

Turbo00 · 09-26-2012, 08:22 PM

Jonny Lieberman is one of the few american auto-journo's worth listening to. I generally respect his opinion, and the ATS was the ONLY other car that I was considering. He's heaped praise on the 3 (and admitted he hasn't been a big BMW fan), and the ATS has been purpose-built to compete with - and "beat" - the 3. Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either, but I chose the one that felt better to me. Would love to drive 'em back-to-back!

lostkhan · 09-26-2012, 08:38 PM

The V series have the same issue with either of their transmissions. Better luck next time.

wayman519 · 09-26-2012, 08:43 PM

BMW doesn't make a good manual transmission? What the hell is motortrend smoking? I am pretty sure the 3 series is considered having some of the top manuals around. I must say the ATS is one of GM's smarter moves.

red-sauerkraut · 09-26-2012, 09:29 PM

Love to see Cadillac be able to effect it's horrible resale value.

A issue that is to hard to overlook or overcome.

bimmerjph · 09-26-2012, 09:32 PM

I have never seen the ATS and F30 side by side. I must give credit to Hooydonk, because he did a great job of making the car look smaller than it is (or at least compared to the ATS). The ATS is a nice looking car also, but it looks enormous compared to the F30 even though they are actually about the same size.

Also since when has BMW had the long held reputation for bad manual transmissions? I thought that was a recent thing and it was due to some sort of clutch thing that can be easily fixed?

vexx786 · 09-26-2012, 09:33 PM

American automakers in general have really been stepping it up over the past few years.

georgere · 09-26-2012, 09:42 PM

Why most pple hate Chrysler here? If anything they are trying and seems to be successful especially considering they were building luxury cars before. The ATS is their new sport premium line and seems to be doing ok.

Bimmerlover76 · 09-26-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayman519

BMW doesn't make a good manual transmission? What the hell is motortrend smoking? I am pretty sure the 3 series is considered having some of the top manuals around. I must say the ATS is one of GM's smarter moves.

+1 to your whole post. I'm not sure about what his rationale could be when talking despairingly about the BMW manual transmission. Also, Cadillac has really come out with a great car. A world beater.

As for the comments above about whether or not the US has ever produced a good car. I offer up the following examples: Boss 302, the new Viper, and the new 300C. Of course, "good" is all subjective and requires an area to judge.

Laguna Seca Blue · 09-26-2012, 09:50 PM

This guy has to be the most vapid auto journalist ever. I feel dumber after watching that.

svache · 09-26-2012, 09:52 PM

Identical.. who cares.. the ATS is ugly as hell, nuff said :P

09-26-2012, 04:28 PM	#4
MaestroAl Major Drives: Superman 330D M Sport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,195 iTrader: (0)	I don't think Cadillac ever made a good car did they? In fact has the USA ever produced a good car? __________________ "Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red 2PF\|ZAP\|ZMP\|ZVI\|2VF\|3AP\|420\|488\|494\|5DC\|688\|6NR IT ARRIVED!

09-26-2012, 04:33 PM	#6
MaestroAl Major Drives: Superman 330D M Sport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,195 iTrader: (0)	Daimler Benz own both Mercedes and Chrysler don't they? And Jeep for that matter __________________ "Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red 2PF\|ZAP\|ZMP\|ZVI\|2VF\|3AP\|420\|488\|494\|5DC\|688\|6NR IT ARRIVED!

09-26-2012, 04:35 PM	#7
MaestroAl Major Drives: Superman 330D M Sport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,195 iTrader: (0)	Oh wait, I forgot you broke the banks. Ze Germans had to sell Chrysler back to the Americans didn't they __________________ "Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red 2PF\|ZAP\|ZMP\|ZVI\|2VF\|3AP\|420\|488\|494\|5DC\|688\|6NR IT ARRIVED!

09-26-2012, 04:52 PM	#9
MaestroAl Major Drives: Superman 330D M Sport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,195 iTrader: (0)	Man, Chrysler has been on a right merry-go-round Still can't make a decent car though Looks like Fiat and VW own pretty much everyone this side of the pond now Last edited by MaestroAl; 09-26-2012 at 04:58 PM.

09-26-2012, 07:49 PM	#12
Photoman Lieutenant Drives: F30 328i Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 516 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW 328i [5.00]	Well if he actually had to spend his own money my bet is that he'd choose the Bimmer every time! __________________ 2012 328i Luxury Line \| Imperial Blue Metallic \| Saddle Brown Leather \| Premium Package \| 19" 343M Reps Thread w/pics here: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703355

09-26-2012, 03:26 PM	#2
Mrcarcrazy Sarcasm free with all posts. Drives: 05 Elise REV310 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Odessa, TX Posts: 440 iTrader: (0)	looks like Caddy put out a decent car (at least in the eyes of that guy.) I think it's god awful ugly, but I'm not into their recent design direction, or caddy as a rule.

09-26-2012, 04:23 PM	#3
Showtyme5 New Member Drives: VW Golf Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: United States Posts: 11 iTrader: (0)	so I'm wondering if he'd recommend the auto ATS over the auto 328. Sounds like he would.

09-26-2012, 08:22 PM	#13
Turbo00 Private Drives: 2013 328i M-Sport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Granby, CT Posts: 60 iTrader: (0)	Jonny Lieberman is one of the few american auto-journo's worth listening to. I generally respect his opinion, and the ATS was the ONLY other car that I was considering. He's heaped praise on the 3 (and admitted he hasn't been a big BMW fan), and the ATS has been purpose-built to compete with - and "beat" - the 3. Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either, but I chose the one that felt better to me. Would love to drive 'em back-to-back!

09-26-2012, 08:38 PM	#14
lostkhan Second Lieutenant Drives: 135i Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: newyork Posts: 289 iTrader: (0)	The V series have the same issue with either of their transmissions. Better luck next time. __________________ BMW 135i 2008 (Current) - Subaru Legacy (DD) - Mountaineer (Hauling) Maxima 95 (Retired) - Acura TL 02 (Retired) - Acura TLS 03 (Retired) - Acura TL 05 (Retired) - Scion tC 2006 (Retired) Audi A4 2003 (Retired) - Jeep Grand Cherokee 96 DD (Retired)

09-26-2012, 08:43 PM	#15
wayman519 Private First Class Drives: F30 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 178 iTrader: (0)	BMW doesn't make a good manual transmission? What the hell is motortrend smoking? I am pretty sure the 3 series is considered having some of the top manuals around. I must say the ATS is one of GM's smarter moves.

09-26-2012, 09:29 PM	#16
red-sauerkraut . Drives: m-car / x-car Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: northern hemisphere Posts: 2,743 iTrader: (0)	Love to see Cadillac be able to effect it's horrible resale value. A issue that is to hard to overlook or overcome.

09-26-2012, 09:32 PM	#17
bimmerjph Major Drives: 2002 BMW 325i Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,317 iTrader: (0)	I have never seen the ATS and F30 side by side. I must give credit to Hooydonk, because he did a great job of making the car look smaller than it is (or at least compared to the ATS). The ATS is a nice looking car also, but it looks enormous compared to the F30 even though they are actually about the same size. Also since when has BMW had the long held reputation for bad manual transmissions? I thought that was a recent thing and it was due to some sort of clutch thing that can be easily fixed? Last edited by bimmerjph; 09-26-2012 at 09:38 PM.

09-26-2012, 09:33 PM	#18
vexx786 Private First Class Drives: BMW E39 530i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 196 iTrader: (0)	American automakers in general have really been stepping it up over the past few years.

09-26-2012, 09:42 PM	#19
georgere Private First Class Drives: 06 235i 6MT Sport Premium Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Stamford CT Posts: 160 iTrader: (0)	Why most pple hate Chrysler here? If anything they are trying and seems to be successful especially considering they were building luxury cars before. The ATS is their new sport premium line and seems to be doing ok.

09-26-2012, 09:50 PM	#21
Laguna Seca Blue Captain Drives: 2009 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 724 iTrader: (0)	This guy has to be the most vapid auto journalist ever. I feel dumber after watching that. __________________ E92 335i 6MT \| Balloon White \| Black Dakota Leather PROcede Rev3 V5 \| AE Quad Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shift Kit \| Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels \| BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 \| AST 4100 Coilovers \| Swift Springs F:280 R:560 \| ER Charge Pipe \| Tial Blue BOV \| VRSF 3" Downpipes \| VRSF 7" Intercooler http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212

09-26-2012, 09:52 PM	#22
svache Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2012 F30 328i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 1,886 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW F30 328i [2.87] 2009 BMW X5 xDrive30i [0.00] 2004 BMW M3 SMG [4.33]	Identical.. who cares.. the ATS is ugly as hell, nuff said :P __________________ F30 328i Luxury w/ Mojave metallic, beige interior (timeline) Note: Many PM me for links to the software needed to code. Please note that I do not have download links to this software. Your best bet is using the search function in the coding thread

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