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      10-24-2012, 01:12 PM   #89
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Yes and no it's part of the 200/yr susbscription based on what the guy @ the P.C. told me. I don't need a concierge, etc...so I didn't opt for that. However he did mention something about google searches. I stopped listening when he told me it wasn't included in the purchase price.
I looked it up in the meantime, actually it's part of the base BMW assist subscription which appears to be included in the first 4 years of ownership, $200/year afterwards. It's not even a true Google search, it's just something that allows you to send Google Map destinations to your car from your computer or a smartphone. Not a direct search on the nav screen unlike the Audi system. It's too bad because I adore searching for a destination through Google Maps, it has everything unlike the nav database.
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      10-24-2012, 04:51 PM   #90
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Poor enough to return BOTH of my vehicles. Plain and simple it is unacceptable for any car, especially models of such value, to have an issue like this. Thus they are now back with BMW to deal with.
Well I know it was poor enough but like what did it feel like? How did it vibrate? I wanna know so I can detect it if necessary.
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      10-24-2012, 06:56 PM   #91
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Well I know it was poor enough but like what did it feel like? How did it vibrate? I wanna know so I can detect it if necessary.
I apologize for not being specific enough. Between the speeds of 38-60MPG the wheel vibrates back and forth with your hands off the wheel. In my first 2012 F30 Sportline 335i the resulting vibration could be felt through the hands. On my second vehicle (2013 F30 M Sport 335i), the vibration detection was less through the my hands though the shake was still there. I believe this is due to the fact that the wheel was smaller and thus had a smaller radius resulting in a less pronounced shaking effect. They both shook and were clearly detectable. Just set your cruise at 45 on a straight road and take your hands off the wheel. If it shakes, you have it, if not, your good. Keep checking for at least 100 miles as it has been cited to worsen with miles.
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      10-24-2012, 07:02 PM   #92
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      10-24-2012, 08:06 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I looked it up in the meantime, actually it's part of the base BMW assist subscription which appears to be included in the first 4 years of ownership, $200/year afterwards. It's not even a true Google search, it's just something that allows you to send Google Map destinations to your car from your computer or a smartphone. Not a direct search on the nav screen unlike the Audi system. It's too bad because I adore searching for a destination through Google Maps, it has everything unlike the nav database.
There is actually google search on BMW but its not a part of BMW assist. You have to pay extra for BMW convenience package which has google search, press SOS and they can direct you, traffic, weather, etc.

Its $199 but I still think its not worth it, more phone works just fine.
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      10-25-2012, 06:18 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by T111 View Post
I apologize for not being specific enough. Between the speeds of 38-60MPG the wheel vibrates back and forth with your hands off the wheel. In my first 2012 F30 Sportline 335i the resulting vibration could be felt through the hands. On my second vehicle (2013 F30 M Sport 335i), the vibration detection was less through the my hands though the shake was still there. I believe this is due to the fact that the wheel was smaller and thus had a smaller radius resulting in a less pronounced shaking effect. They both shook and were clearly detectable. Just set your cruise at 45 on a straight road and take your hands off the wheel. If it shakes, you have it, if not, your good. Keep checking for at least 100 miles as it has been cited to worsen with miles.
Thanks for the heads up.
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      10-25-2012, 06:41 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by aceking4u View Post


A 328i over an A4 easily.
An S4 over a 335 semi-easily.

Also another thing to consider, look at a used equipped S4 vs a used equipped 335. The 335 will depreciate a lot more than an S4 (2012 MY and before).
Digression from comparing driving attributes, as I'd like to address the residuals, and depreciation of these cars.

Audi has improved their resale, but the reality is that the 3 series holds better value. That's the major reason why BMW leases are so good, they have better residuals, which are based on the actual market value, that includes the S4.
Plus, of course pre F30 3's have fallen in the used market, as they are no longer the current model. BMW was giving huge discounts for left over E90's, and that then effects used prices of all pre F30 3 series.
The S4 is still current, even if it's now "old". When the new S4 comes, used prices of previous gen S4's will fall as well.
So, we need to stick with same gen models to make an honest residual comparison.

It's also likely that some or even many Audi dealers jack up the used sale price of an S4, I've seen it in the Chicago market. But, the actual selling price comes way down when you really want to buy it at it's true cost.
Audi dealers like to jack up the S4 used prices as they like to claim "rarity".
True, S4's are rare. But, so are 335i's in many markets.
328i's outsell 335i's by a good margin, and thus are also rarer.
In my area you do see quite a number of 328i's, rarely a 335i.
I see about as many 335i's as I do S4's, and this is the Chicago market where AWD is a wanted commodity.

If S4's really had better residuals it would be reflected in their leases, and that's simply not the case. Audi looses a lot of sales in the US due to their awful lease rates. Actual selling prices may be close between the 3 and the A4/S4, but when leasing Audi's lose.
I would have put more consideration into the S4 if not for the awful lease rates, which made an equally priced S4 nearly $100 more per month.
Plus, BMW gave some good incentives with "drive" discounts and loyalty money.
My 335i Msport MSRP is a bit over $52K and I'm only paying $511 per month, tax included, no money down, with multiple security deposits.
Similarly priced S4 was over $600, something like $620 or so, even with conquest money.
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      10-25-2012, 10:34 PM   #96
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after owning a 335i, and test driving a 13 s4 i know my next car will be the s4

i think the interior is nicer, i like the alcantara seats compared to the all leather

i think the standard s4 steering wheel is a lot nicer

the transmission feels smoother (manuals)
dct transmission feels great

mmi is great compared to e90 idrive (havent messed with current idrive)

fuel economy is better with the audi

bmw has a better "feel" when pushed but Im looking for a daily driver not a race car

bmw has better potential for power, but s4 is capable of 400whp no problem and thats more than enough
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      10-25-2012, 10:47 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by saxon View Post
after owning a 335i, and test driving a 13 s4 i know my next car will be the s4

i think the interior is nicer, i like the alcantara seats compared to the all leather

i think the standard s4 steering wheel is a lot nicer

the transmission feels smoother (manuals)
dct transmission feels great

mmi is great compared to e90 idrive (havent messed with current idrive)

fuel economy is better with the audi

bmw has a better "feel" when pushed but Im looking for a daily driver not a race car

bmw has better potential for power, but s4 is capable of 400whp no problem and thats more than enough
lmao. you obviously havent test driven a f30 335.

if you had you would know the ZF8 sport is better than the audi dsg, shifts just as fast and is smoother.

The audi is a gas guzzler compared to the F30.

everything else is subjective, but why your comparing a 2013 S4 to your old E90 is beyond me
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      10-25-2012, 11:20 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by saxon View Post
after owning a 335i, and test driving a 13 s4 i know my next car will be the s4

i think the interior is nicer, i like the alcantara seats compared to the all leather

i think the standard s4 steering wheel is a lot nicer

the transmission feels smoother (manuals)
dct transmission feels great

mmi is great compared to e90 idrive (havent messed with current idrive)

fuel economy is better with the audi

bmw has a better "feel" when pushed but Im looking for a daily driver not a race car

bmw has better potential for power, but s4 is capable of 400whp no problem and thats more than enough
I did some research for you.

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      10-25-2012, 11:33 PM   #99
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My 335i Msport MSRP is a bit over $52K and I'm only paying $511 per month, tax included, no money down, with multiple security deposits.
Similarly priced S4 was over $600, something like $620 or so, even with conquest money.
Can you pls show me the math for your monthly payment cuz this doesn't seem right especially in IL where you have to pay taxes for the whole price of the car, lets say you got it for $46k (I highly doubt it)plus taxes and fees = $50K and you are telling us your payment is $511, this to me doesn't seem right
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      10-25-2012, 11:35 PM   #100
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I did some research for you.

I am getting avg mpg on the 335 around 22 mpg, so the S4 would be close to 16 mpg if not less
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      10-25-2012, 11:37 PM   #101
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Can you pls show me the math for your monthly payment cuz this doesn't seem right especially in IL where you have to pay taxes for the whole price of the car, lets say you got it for $46k (I highly doubt it)plus taxes and fees = $50K and you are telling us your payment is $511, this to me doesn't seem right
he did MSD...his payment without the MSD's is probably 570 a month...
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      10-25-2012, 11:42 PM   #102
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he did MSD...his payment with the MSD's is probably 570 a month...
im sorry i dont know what MSD is ? is it like a baloon payment at the end?
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      11-15-2012, 11:03 AM   #103
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Digression from comparing driving attributes, as I'd like to address the residuals, and depreciation of these cars.

Audi has improved their resale, but the reality is that the 3 series holds better value. That's the major reason why BMW leases are so good, they have better residuals, which are based on the actual market value, that includes the S4.
Plus, of course pre F30 3's have fallen in the used market, as they are no longer the current model. BMW was giving huge discounts for left over E90's, and that then effects used prices of all pre F30 3 series.
The S4 is still current, even if it's now "old". When the new S4 comes, used prices of previous gen S4's will fall as well.
So, we need to stick with same gen models to make an honest residual comparison.

It's also likely that some or even many Audi dealers jack up the used sale price of an S4, I've seen it in the Chicago market. But, the actual selling price comes way down when you really want to buy it at it's true cost.
Audi dealers like to jack up the S4 used prices as they like to claim "rarity".
True, S4's are rare. But, so are 335i's in many markets.
328i's outsell 335i's by a good margin, and thus are also rarer.
In my area you do see quite a number of 328i's, rarely a 335i.
I see about as many 335i's as I do S4's, and this is the Chicago market where AWD is a wanted commodity.

If S4's really had better residuals it would be reflected in their leases, and that's simply not the case. Audi looses a lot of sales in the US due to their awful lease rates. Actual selling prices may be close between the 3 and the A4/S4, but when leasing Audi's lose.
I would have put more consideration into the S4 if not for the awful lease rates, which made an equally priced S4 nearly $100 more per month.
Plus, BMW gave some good incentives with "drive" discounts and loyalty money.
My 335i Msport MSRP is a bit over $52K and I'm only paying $511 per month, tax included, no money down, with multiple security deposits.
Similarly priced S4 was over $600, something like $620 or so, even with conquest money.
I agree with most of your points, especially how Audi doesn't give good lease rates. But please keep what i mentioned in mind. Audi doesn't produce and send as many cars to the U.S like BMW. Therefore, if they have fewer cars sold here, why should they offer lower lease rates? Audi doesn't have a problem getting their A4 off of lots at the price they want to sell it for. IMO, if they had this problem, they would offer better lease rates (especially since over 65% of luxury cars are leased anyway).

Going back to exclusivity. I still stand by what I said and you're a great example of it. Why pay $100+ more monthly for this car when you can have a 3 series. Everyone is also thinking the same thing, not just you, and I go through the same process when selecting a car. Monthly payments & down payments are important.

Another reason why you see so many 3 series and C class on the road.

In Los Angeles to Orange County, you'll see a 3 to 1 ratio (eye balling it).

Nothing wrong with having a BMW. I think the F30 is an amazing car, I'm just simply stating, not all choices are driven by monthly payments, but I think most are.
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      11-15-2012, 11:10 AM   #104
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Even though there are lots of BMW's, there are NOT a lot of F30's in Estoril Blue. I just spent an entire week in downtown Los Angeles, drove to San Luis Obispo & back to SD and have STILL never seen an EB ll F30 on the freeway or driving around town. In Cali, I call THAT.....exclusivity.
Keep in mind the EBII M is a fairly new thing. I checked in Los Angeles recently, I know for a fact there are at least 2-3 in my area on dealer lots. If there is an M Package on the lot, its likely going to be Black, White, or EBII IMO. I think BMW will play it safe here and only order M Packages in those color allocation.

I may be a minority here, but the thing about the EBII, I don't think it goes well with the black window trim

I think the Blue with the Chrome trim with some really nice BBS LM's will pop much nicer. Maybe the EBII will look better on the 4 series.

I'm a coupe guy btw. I've owned an 04 Accord Coupe, 10 S5, and now a C350 Coupe. I'm really glad the 4 series is finally head to Detroit, cant wait for real photos. I don't think I'll be getting a sedan anymore, but I hope they will be showcasing an EBII in the 4 series. Its a great color and I'm glad you're headed towards that direction.
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      11-19-2012, 06:53 PM   #105
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Can you pls show me the math for your monthly payment cuz this doesn't seem right especially in IL where you have to pay taxes for the whole price of the car, lets say you got it for $46k (I highly doubt it)plus taxes and fees = $50K and you are telling us your payment is $511, this to me doesn't seem right
These numbers still are pretty far off in my mind. I don't see how he could get to this payment even at invoice pricing and 1 or 2k down..
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      11-19-2012, 07:11 PM   #106
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These numbers still are pretty far off in my mind. I don't see how he could get to this payment even at invoice pricing and 1 or 2k down..
i agree it doesn't make sense
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      11-19-2012, 10:12 PM   #107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
My 335i Msport MSRP is a bit over $52K and I'm only paying $511 per month, tax included, no money down, with multiple security deposits.
Similarly priced S4 was over $600, something like $620 or so, even with conquest money.
Can you pls show me the math for your monthly payment cuz this doesn't seem right especially in IL where you have to pay taxes for the whole price of the car, lets say you got it for $46k (I highly doubt it)plus taxes and fees = $50K and you are telling us your payment is $511, this to me doesn't seem right
On a lease? That's about right... I purchased my 335,but lease was about $479 with $5k down, so $511 with only deposits down isn't unrealistic.

I went with the 335i because I got an amazing price ($47k vs 62k for an s4), could mod it cheap with a better power yield than an S4, and I wanted descent mpg and didn't want AWD...granted prices would've been within $5k had I gotten xdrive, but coming from an Evo, I wanted a true Drivers experience.
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      11-19-2012, 10:21 PM   #108
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Quit rubbing it in with this ridiculously low US pricing!

grrr.....
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      11-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
Can you pls show me the math for your monthly payment cuz this doesn't seem right especially in IL where you have to pay taxes for the whole price of the car, lets say you got it for $46k (I highly doubt it)plus taxes and fees = $50K and you are telling us your payment is $511, this to me doesn't seem right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Hustle View Post
These numbers still are pretty far off in my mind. I don't see how he could get to this payment even at invoice pricing and 1 or 2k down..
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
On a lease? That's about right... I purchased my 335,but lease was about $479 with $5k down, so $511 with only deposits down isn't unrealistic.

I went with the 335i because I got an amazing price ($47k vs 62k for an s4), could mod it cheap with a better power yield than an S4, and I wanted descent mpg and didn't want AWD...granted prices would've been within $5k had I gotten xdrive, but coming from an Evo, I wanted a true Drivers experience.
If true, this is a godlike deal for a '13 335i M Sport

Assuming MSRP of $52k:

At Base MF of .00145/MSDx7/.62 Residual, he got $5,400 of MSRP
(MF and Residual from 2012 Summer)

At a base MF of .00130/MSDx7/.60 residual, he got $6,000 off MSRP
(Current MF and Residual)


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      11-20-2012, 01:25 AM   #110
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my car is a 2013 335i M-Sport listed at 54K MSRP and I pay 550 including tax with 7 MSD payments (the maximum allowed by BMW) for a 3 year lease. It's basically 7 monthly payments upfront (you can choose 1 to 7) as "Multiple Security Deposits". I only paid first month and registration upfront. ...you get the entire MSD amount back on lease return. It lowers the money factor on the lease which in turn lowers your monthly lease payment.
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