[verbs]

Originally Posted by ThreeThirtyFiveI

Well if you really need those I guess M-sport isn't for you lol I like the no fog lights. How many "M" cars have fog lights these days? 1M,M3,M5,M6,X5M,X6M all do not have fog lights. Having those caverns behind there just open the door for more performance upgrades

No foglights on my 2008 M5.

[Rossifumi]

Originally Posted by verbs

Greece does not get as hot as Phoenix. Not even close. Even a hot city like Seville Spain isn't "that" close. Just as an example, in June the average high temperature in Phoenix was about 41-42 degrees C. In Seville the average June high temperature was about 33-34 degrees C. That's a big difference. That's a 14 degree F difference for you (us) Americans.

I know it's hot(er). But still, you get fog lights on the regular lines. So there is more to it than just heat.

[ThreeThirtyFiveI]

Originally Posted by verbs

No foglights on my 2008 M5.

exactly.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

I know it's hot(er). But still, you get fog lights on the regular lines. So there is more to it than just heat.

It could be that BMW anticipates owners with the M-sport package as being more likely to drive their cars hard, or it could be due to the M-sport front bumper's design hindering airflow more than the standard bumper if it does in fact hang a little lower than the regular lines. In those cases heat could make a difference.

At the end of the day, M cars don't have foglights. In my mind if these bumpers were never meant to have foglights, they shouldn't have them.

It could very well be that Europeans have a stronger preference for fog lights than Americans, hense the decision to make the adjustment. Who knows. Maybe they were just trying to cut costs in the US.

[ThreeThirtyFiveI]

Originally Posted by verbs

At the end of the day, M cars don't have foglights. In my mind if these bumpers were never meant to have foglights, they shouldn't have them.

I can't wait for the winter time when those foglight-less openings are ice and snow covered. These cars have a great feel at sub freezing temperatures.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by ThreeThirtyFiveI

I can't wait for the winter time when those foglight-less openings are ice and snow covered. These cars have a great feel at sub freezing temperatures.

Lol NY problems

[Vector Pilot]

I submitted another thread about BMW not having offering fog lamps on the M Sport line because of heat issues. IMO, and sure many will agree, it's all about marketing-hype, and image. If fog lights prevented a BMW from preforming at it's best then why does a majority of their cars have them.

[clarence]

If u compare the pics, the blockage to airflow by the fogs are negligible.
Well, don't the Germans track their cars at the Ring or some other circuits during summer? Summer in Germany isn't exactly cold, which is the same for most of Europe. Ok, summer in some places in US are very hot, but they don't have high humidity.

[neo871]

In my opinion BMW has no real reason for differentiating the bumpers based on temperature variation reason. As other were saying, driving in southern Spain, Italy, Cyprus, Turkey, etc. would pose the same heat issues as US.
However, what I still can't understand is what is the purpose of the lateral radiators that can be seen through the US M Sport bumper. If those are gearbox oil coolers why were they replaced with fog lights in EU?

Brake cooling can be easily done through a duct next to the fog lights (this is the case of my e90 m sport lci); obviously the us m sport radiators are for a different purpose.

The more cooling parts, the better, in my opinion. When I first saw the F10 M5 in the showroom, I was really amazed by how many radiators were stuffed in behind the front bumper.

Anyway, time will tell.

[neo871]

I just checked realoem.com, and it seems that the US M Sport package has an additional radiator that is not mentioned in the left hand drive EU F30.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...49&hg=17&fg=05

It's an additional engine coolant radiator.

[Robin_NL]

Still argueing about why a 'normal' US F30 M Sport doesn't get the foglights and the ROW does?

///Marketing from BMW USA at its finest.

I'm not talking about real M cars like the 1M, M3, M5 etcetera, I owned two of them , E46 M3 WITH foglights and E90 M3 without them. Which stock brakes were better at a trackday? I recall the E46's being a tad less terrible than the E90's LOL

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

I submitted another thread about BMW not having offering fog lamps on the M Sport line because of heat issues. IMO, and sure many will agree, it's all about marketing-hype, and image. If fog lights prevented a BMW from preforming at it's best then why does a majority of their cars have them.

+1

Originally Posted by neo871

I just checked realoem.com, and it seems that the US M Sport package has an additional radiator that is not mentioned in the left hand drive EU F30.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...49&hg=17&fg=05

It's an additional engine coolant radiator.

So that's an additional radiator which comes with an US M sport 328i. The one on the pasengerside the normal 335i s already have, or am I missing something?

Cheers
Robin

[neo871]

The link was for 335i. I'm guessing one side radiator is for oil cooling and the other is an additional engine coolant radiator.
Maybe these are present on EU 335i but are less visible, hence less air exposure.

An EU 335i M sport owner can confirm or infirm this.

[neo871]

Lol, Robin. I just read that you drive an f30 335i. It's not and M Sport, but can you see anything through the wheel arches?

[bora]

In belgium it is possible to have adaptative suspension with m sport package (also in UK)
I have ordered mine with And no problem

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by neo871

Lol, Robin. I just read that you drive an f30 335i. It's not and M Sport, but can you see anything through the wheel arches?

This:


Cheers
Robin

[neo871]

I can definitely see a radiator there, does the other side look similar?

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by neo871

I can definitely see a radiator there, does the other side look similar?

No that part is more or less closed by a plastic cap, covering it for about 70%....

EDIT. exactly like this. EU 335i Sport:



Cheers
Robin

[neo871]

This probably means that US has an additional cooler there instead of the plastic cap, at least for M Sport.

[jlh335i]

Ducting is vital in order to get more clean air to the radiators/intercooler/etc...
By pure speculation, it looks like the foglight takes up half of the space of the duct. By removing that you are providing twice as much cool air to the cooling element.

Marketing? Hardly. I think it is a response to those of us from the e90 forum putting bmw on blast for our easily overheating cars. Notice too that the pics for the US msport are at a track press event...

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by neo871

This probably means that US has an additional cooler there instead of the plastic cap, at least for M Sport.

Which if that's the case , the US customer pays for the deleted foglight but gets an additional (oil/water)cooler like on the pics on the first page. Which soundst to me like a good deal and less //Marketing than I expected.

But I still miss the bloody foglights!

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by jlh335i

Ducting is vital in order to get more clean air to the radiators/intercooler/etc...
By pure speculation, it looks like the foglight takes up half of the space of the duct. By removing that you are providing twice as much cool air to the cooling element.

Marketing? Hardly. I think it is a response to those of us from the e90 forum putting bmw on blast for our easily overheating cars. Notice too that the pics for the US msport are at a track press event...

I guess I have to agree with you on that, mate.

In bold: The (EU) press presentation of the normal F30 also was at Circuit de Catalunya, Barcelona, Cataluña, Spain, so that's rather common for a brand like BMW imo.

Cheers
Robin