[will.c]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86414D20120705

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-takeover-cars

Any immediate thoughts OT?

[MediaArtist]

They also own Audi, and Lamborghini. As long as they keep making great cars, don't care.

[UltimateBMW]

Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.

[boymonkey]

VW/Audi reliability

[will.c]

Yes, so are Bentley and Bugatti owned by VW. That's the point; they own too many, and they are all the same.

Porsche is such a unique machinery, I fear that their current special nature might be "diluted," as UltimateBMW has stated, to mere grand tourer/cruiser.

What's next; GT3 RS 4.0 w/ "fast shifting" auto trans, "intricate" AWD system, and a supercharger for doing 250MPH? Porsche AWD wagon? ..Wait... lol jk

[BabyrayS2k]

Originally Posted by boymonkey

VW/Audi reliability

And BMW is better.

[jpsum]

Originally Posted by boymonkey

VW/Audi reliability

+1 I can't figure out a way to get rid of my Golf fast enough.

[PINeely]

I wouldn't mind VWs that drive like Porsches. I would mind Porsches that drive like VWs.

[fitchesbass]

First thought: surprise!

VW just acquired Ducati too via Audi.

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.

Hmmm that seemed to happen with the lambo's.. oh wait. Better than the BMW M branding dilution.. they're doing it to themselves. LOL

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by wonho

What's next; GT3 RS 4.0 w/ "fast shifting" auto trans, "intricate" AWD system, and a supercharger for doing 250MPH? Porsche AWD wagon? ..Wait... lol jk

Don't know if you've been paying attention, but that's pretty much how the market is going for most sports car companies; Ferrari makes a 4 seater, the 458 Italia doesn't even come with a manual, Lambo has an SUV coming (Urus), BMW is making electric 4 seater "super cars".

About the only companies that make cars purely for Motorsport enthusiast is McLaren and Pagani, and good luck getting an allocation.

[fitchesbass]

Originally Posted by PINeely

I wouldn't mind VWs that drive like Porsches. I would mind Porsches that drive like VWs.

LOL they've had a relationship for a long time. People overreact with this stuff imo.

Ferdinand Porsche and the original beetle....porsche and vw with the 914... more recently when they introduced the cayenne and using the same chassis as the touareg. OMG the GT3 is gonna drive like a jetta now.. shit. VW group isn't dumb.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.

VW has had a close working relationship with Porsche for nearly 50 years, the 914 was born out of that working relationship, and enthusiast till this day love that car (I see it at Cars and Coffee even today). I don't understand why people suddenly expect their relationship to turn out bad cars, and a diluted brand.

[will.c]

Well I guess they have had a long history of relationships here and there, but now for the first time, VW is the ultimate decision maker of all Porsche products. I think it's reasonable to expect that future P-cars will have uncontested influences from VW, and that these will ultimately benefit VW themselves more than Porsche brand.

MediaArtist, I know what you mean; the market is changing. And since auto industry is, just like everything else, a money-driven industry, they need to adapt quickly to the changing market and produce what majority of the population needs and wants. They even stated that they're looking into quadrupling the brand (I forget the exact phrasing). This must mean that they are targeting more of that majority market. I'm generalizing here, but now what this market wants are: status symbol; comfort; power; fuel efficiency; safety; quietness; eye-catching style (not necessarily "good"); etc.

From what I can see at the road course tracks, BMWs and P-cars populate the vast majority among all those who enjoy driving their cars near the limit. (You hardly ever see any Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati, or any other exotics. What are they made for then?) Having said that, I can certainly notice that the newer generation BMWs have been more scarce to find at the track. What I keep hearing from a lot of people in this type of environment is that these newer BMWs are just not as sharp and focused machines as it used to be decades ago; rather they have just become fantastic daily-drivers and all-arounders... adapting to the majority of the market trend. I can't blame them though; their sales are tremendous. And they are in here to make money, so...

On that note, what impressed me with Porsches is that you still find the newest 911s, Boxsters, and Caymans all over the track. I'd even say that the newer models are majority among the Porsche crowd, despite their hefty price tag. I thought this showed me that Porsche's focus was still on the right direction regardless of what the market wants. I do see that they've been making some funny sedans and SUVs... but still, they make some very track-worthy cars to this date.

To wrap this long post up, (it's just my own opinion, all of this) with such diversified portfolio as VW has, they would more likely to turn the focused Porsche cars into something softer, heavier, safer, and worst of all, more of a mere status symbol on, say, "4-door coupes." I mean, ultimately, the more time Porsche's Engineers spend on all different types of highway-terrorizing vehicles' complex suspension technology, the less time they have in developing a track-optimized GT3 RS or alike, in my logic.

Well it's better for me. My bucket list for cars to own only gets shorter; in fact, it stops around 2006. I hope VW proves me wrong; I hope I'll have something new to drive when I get older.

[brandonb]

Ferdinand Porsche made the Beetle for Hitler, so their history have crossed path before... Nice that Hitler's old car company now is ready for "global leadership"!

[wisesoul]

Fine by me. Always been related, now Porsche has access to more money

[Bobble]

What makes you think VW will have the ultimate say in all things? VAG is a group of companies that operate almost autonomously. Lambo and Bentley do not ask VW for design cues nor vice versa. Will they have to answer for economic failure to the board at VAG, certainly, design and engineering maybe not so much.
The biggest reason, IMO, you do not see many newer BMW's on the track in one word is weight. All those cushy luxury appointments do not translate well to the track.

[michaelthepsycho]

There are three forms to an auto business model IMO:

1) All normal people cars like VW. Their products are bankrolled by their generic offerings. Nobody has any contention with companies like Toyota because they build people-pleasers.

2) Half and half. Porsche under last decade's management team is bank-rolling the 911 / Cayman / Boxster with the Cayenne and Panamera. They are going dangerously soft despite the RS offerings because, let's be honest, it's not their most sold dish and they have no incentive to keep making non-profitable products. Ferrari with the FF??? Uhhh.. No thanks

3) Specialized, hard-core companies. Pagani, McLaren, Noble, and stuff like Zenvo. Low sales volumes and customers' voices are heard. These types of companies are very tricky to manage. Make or bust IMO.

The new 991 is... Quite chubster in terms of styling. The weight might have gone down but most reviews have said it's lost its edge. I think we are all worried about that.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho

They are going dangerously soft even with the RS offerings because,

What? How are they going "dangerously soft" with the RS? It comes with a roll cage, a plastic engine cover, carbon fiber wing, and a close-ratio 6 speed tranny. It weighs 3,000lbs dry. If that's soft, then what do you call a 335i with a step tranny? Or the 3,600lbs E92 M3?

Also they sell out every allocation of the GT3 RS they have. Why would you say it's not profitable to make the car?

[len56]

"VW and Audi are a lot like a really hot girlfriend...looks great, amazing in bed, but every once in awhile you gotta throw some money down on the table so she sticks around."

hahaha perfect

http://www.vwforum.com/forums/f29/ju...ability-39928/

[Greenkirby21]

i think this means nothing LOL.

[michaelthepsycho]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

What? How are they going "dangerously soft" with the RS? It comes with a roll cage, a plastic engine cover, carbon fiber wing, and a close-ratio 6 speed tranny. It weighs 3,000lbs dry. If that's soft, then what do you call a 335i with a step tranny? Or the 3,600lbs E92 M3?

Also they sell out every allocation of the GT3 RS they have. Why would you say it's not profitable to make the car?

Daily drivers with a little sporty intentions.

I think I worded it incorrectly. I meant to say despite their RS offerings. Don't get me wrong, I love those. It's been edited to reflect that.

And profit-wise, I'm pretty sure the RS cars don't make as much a margin as the regular cars.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho

The new 991 is... Quite chubster in terms of styling. The weight might have gone down but most reviews have said it's lost its edge. I think we are all worried about that.

It has lost its edge
I drove one. From the second I sat in it, it didn't feel like a Porsche anymore.
Fast? hell yeah
Corners better? I guess
Feel? the car drove me.

granted I wasn't able to test drive a manual one, so that could account for some of it. According to my dealership at the time of my test drive, such a few number of people ordered a manual 997, and even less the 991 that they had no immediate plans to keep one in stock. Scary.

My other Porsche dealership told me that the clientele isn't what it used to be, and people no longer buy Porsches mainly for the sports car factor, but more for the "wow" factor.

They are just giving their clients what they want. I can't blame them, but I'm not happy about it either.
A lot of people pick it up PDK (like some of my friends) because their wives can't drive stick and they cant justify the purchase to them, so PDK it is.