[mdsbuc]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

I think the F10 evolution really lost a lot of the 5er's great DNA, but I don't think the same can be said of the F30. It's a good car. The ///M performance version will bring all you ppl back, you'll just have to pay high $ for it. It will go head on with the S4. And yes, EPS can be tuned for good tactile feedback as well as excellent steering in put with the right tires. On the flip side, hydraulic steering can have awful feedback also.

This pretty much speaks to how I feel. I thought for sure I would replace my 06 530i with the F10. After a couple of test drives I thought the car had lost almost everything I loved about that "old" E60; there was no way I could buy the new iteration. After one short test drive in the F30, I'm sold. Again, where others have said, "1 is the new 3, 3 is the new 5, 5 is the new 7 and so on...," I couldn't agree more.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

Look, from what I can tell, the F30 is by all accounts "softer" than prior 3ers. that's fine, not a big deal. It is also bigger. I don't think BMW ruined the sports sedan chemistry with this F30 - I think it drives just great. they've extended the product line to bring in the 1 series, if that's your thing.

I think the F10 evolution really lost a lot of the 5er's great DNA, but I don't think the same can be said of the F30. It's a good car. The ///M performance version will bring all you ppl back, you'll just have to pay high $ for it. It will go head on with the S4. And yes, EPS can be tuned for good tactile feedback as well as excellent steering in put with the right tires. On the flip side, hydraulic steering can have awful feedback also.

I agree with you on the 5er. And I also don't think the the F30 got hit as bad as the F10.
And yes there are some wonderful EPS steering systems out there, but that just raises the question why isn't the F30's one of them. It is just an okay rack. Its only saving grace is that it is very precise. Making a good steering rack wouldn't (shouldn't) turn off the people buying it as a luxury car either. I just don't understand what BMW was thinking .

[Nedmundo]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

And yes there are some wonderful EPS steering systems out there, but that just raises the question why isn't the F30's one of them. It is just an okay rack. Its only saving grace is that it is very precise. Making a good steering rack wouldn't (shouldn't) turn off the people buying it as a luxury car either. I just don't understand what BMW was thinking .

My thoughts exactly. I expect BMW will work hard to improve on-center feel and tactile feedback in the F30's steering, just as they increased the weight of the E90's steering after it was criticized initially. I'll probably like it in a couple of years, but I might have a Subaru BRZ by then!

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by Nedmundo

My thoughts exactly. I expect BMW will work hard to improve on-center feel and tactile feedback in the F30's steering, just as they increased the weight of the E90's steering after it was criticized initially. I'll probably like it in a couple of years, but I might have a Subaru BRZ by then!

Look, they said they exact same thing about the E46 when it came out in 1999. The steering is too "boosted". Effort was light, feedback was poor. That was totally changed in the 2nd yr run of that model.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

This pretty much speaks to how I feel. I thought for sure I would replace my 06 530i with the F10. After a couple of test drives I thought the car had lost almost everything I loved about that "old" E60; there was no way I could buy the new iteration. After one short test drive in the F30, I'm sold. Again, where others have said, "1 is the new 3, 3 is the new 5, 5 is the new 7 and so on...," I couldn't agree more.

Exactly. It's not just BMW, look how big the a/s4 has gotten? Remember how small the Nissan Altima was when it first came out?

Everything is bigger and they just come out with a 'new' model to fill the shoes of the old.. So die hard "3" fans that feel the F30 has gotten too big should feel right at home in a 1. The E90 is probably a bit lost in the middle at the moment, bigger than a 1, smaller than the F30... So it may still be a sweet spot for some people.

[RPM90]

Those who love the E90 have their right to love and enjoy any car they wish. The E90 was a very good 3 series to like.

Reality is those who don't like the F30 have no standing to come on an F30 enthusiast site and tell us what the F30 is, isn't, has become, or will be.
You don't have to like it for whatever reasons you have. It's obviously not the BMW 3 series for you.

But, don't be so arrogant in then defining who or what type of driver or person will like the F30, while insinuating that those who prefer luxury over performance will like the F30 over any previous 3 series.

Some of you are making grand assumptions that those of us who like the F30, and even like it better than the E90, are less of a driving enthusiast than you.
Well, you'd only be right in that you know how to an ass-umer.

Why waste your time? Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

[jwickers]

If only the 3 wasn't so handsome, and the 1 so ugly ..

[328inGE]

Originally Posted by RPM90

But, don't be so arrogant in then defining who or what type of driver or person will like the F30, while insinuating that those who prefer luxury over performance will like the F30 over any previous 3 series.

Some of you are making grand assumptions that those of us who like the F30, and even like it better than the E90, are less of a driving enthusiast than you.
Well, you'd only be right in that you know how to an ass-umer.

[HighlandPete]

Steering, size, lines, options, or whatever... I agree it has all moved on. That is always the case with new models, every model has its attractions and disappointments.

How the E90 has become the 3-series 'benchmark' model for BMW, I just don't know. Highly critised for design, inside and out, ugly looking to many, minimal non focued interior. Then the horrible ride characteristics, choppy sport suspension, run-flat tire issues, many lamented the passing of the E46.

I suppose a lot of how we feel, is where we come from, in the enthusiast pack. For me the E90/1 is an 'OK' model range, definitely not the best BMW in any respect.

My first introduction to the F30, both from a visual perspective and driving it was, BMW have moved on in the right direction. To be honest it is for me a near replacement to the E39 5-series, and because that car was the pinnacle of BMW engineering, (IMO), dare I say the real BMW 'DNA', (the best blend of sportiness and luxury), the F30 is a welcome move, in improving the 3-series. But with a wide range of options to build to our tastes.

But if we are hard core 3-series guys, again depending which generation we started with, (E21, E30, E36, E46 or E90) and of course the model and engine we prefer driving, then many variants of the F30 will definitely be a car in a different segment.

The size issue, let's put it into perspective, the E82 1-series is bigger than the E30, which many saw/see as a true 3-series sized car. But again, compared against what? Some like me, compare an E30 to the 5-series of the period, it is all so subjective. My E91 is bigger than the E12/E28 5-series I was driving in that period.

The steering issue, I do believe a lot has to do with model specification and wheel combinations. We are still running 'numb' run-flats and remember BMW has increased the tire profile, so we are bound to have a different road feel, even with EPS, just as the F10 has a completely different feel according to wheel size and options added to the model. But think about it, the E90 has been just the same. Steering is different according to model, wheel size and tire specification. Just that we've had a chance to appraise the differences and know what works best. Give the F30 a chance and I'm sure we'll be in the same place in a short while.

I'm pleased that the F30 appears to be a near replacement to the E39 5-series, but that is because that is where I sit as a BMW enthusiast, with that blend of sportiness and luxury that attracted me to BMW in the first place, many years ago.

I still echo my earlier comments that there is virtually something for everyone in the F30 range of builds. If not, there is always the smaller 1-series, if size is the issue and/or the M-cars if anyone feels something is lost in the sportiness of BMW.

It is easy to feel BMW has lost its way, I remember when the idea of a diesel in a BMW was one step too far. But to be frank, without the diesels I'm not sure BMW would be here these days, to even offer such brilliant cars as the F30. Sometimes we just have to go with the marketing men, it is sales that allows further development and success.

HighlandPete

[dd1981]

RASHID, I completely agree with you, and Im a previous e90 owner, and still have one in the stable (girlfriends 328xi). I loved the way the e90 felt no doubt but the interior left much to be desired for....Those Damn, Damn cup holders OMG! Who ever thought of that should have been whipped.

I think the new f30 feels so much more refined and comfortable, It really picks up the pieces in a huge way where the e90 left off. I know the new 335i is a bit slower then the previous predacessor but that doesnt bother me one bit. I love the new cupholers, I mean love them. I feel confident when i put somthing in it my friend wont accidently knee my drink all over my console and into my lap lmao

IMHO I feel they hit a grand slam with the styling, I even like it better then the B8 s4. S4 is nice as hell on the inside but feels a bit cheap, from what I gathered on my test drive. And the exterior of an a4/s4 ehhhhhh Ill pass.

Thats all I got...

[dd1981]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Steering, size, lines, options, or whatever... I agree it has all moved on. That is always the case with new models, every model has its attractions and disappointments.

How the E90 has become the 3-series 'benchmark' model for BMW, I just don't know. Highly critised for design, inside and out, ugly looking to many, minimal non focued interior. Then the horrible ride characteristics, choppy sport suspension, run-flat tire issues, many lamented the passing of the E46.

I suppose a lot of how we feel, is where we come from, in the enthusiast pack. For me the E90/1 is an 'OK' model range, definitely not the best BMW in any respect.

My first introduction to the F30, both from a visual perspective and driving it was, BMW have moved on in the right direction. To be honest it is for me a near replacement to the E39 5-series, and because that car was the pinnacle of BMW engineering, (IMO), dare I say the real BMW 'DNA', (the best blend of sportiness and luxury), the F30 is a welcome move, in improving the 3-series. But with a wide range of options to build to our tastes.

But if we are hard core 3-series guys, again depending which generation we started with, (E21, E30, E36, E46 or E90) and of course the model and engine we prefer driving, then many variants of the F30 will definitely be a car in a different segment.

The size issue, let's put it into perspective, the E82 1-series is bigger than the E30, which many saw/see as a true 3-series sized car. But again, compared against what? Some like me, compare an E30 to the 5-series of the period, it is all so subjective. My E91 is bigger than the E12/E28 5-series I was driving in that period.

The steering issue, I do believe a lot has to do with model specification and wheel combinations. We are still running 'numb' run-flats and remember BMW has increased the tire profile, so we are bound to have a different road feel, even with EPS, just as the F10 has a completely different feel according to wheel size and options added to the model. But think about it, the E90 has been just the same. Steering is different according to model, wheel size and tire specification. Just that we've had a chance to appraise the differences and know what works best. Give the F30 a chance and I'm sure we'll be in the same place in a short while.

I'm pleased that the F30 appears to be a near replacement to the E39 5-series, but that is because that is where I sit as a BMW enthusiast, with that blend of sportiness and luxury that attracted me to BMW in the first place, many years ago.

I still echo my earlier comments that there is virtually something for everyone in the F30 range of builds. If not, there is always the smaller 1-series, if size is the issue and/or the M-cars if anyone feels something is lost in the sportiness of BMW.

It is easy to feel BMW has lost its way, I remember when the idea of a diesel in a BMW was one step too far. But to be frank, without the diesels I'm not sure BMW would be here these days, to even offer such brilliant cars as the F30. Sometimes we just have to go with the marketing men, it is sales that allows further development and success.

HighlandPete

Very well put.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by dd1981

Very well put.

I strongly agree. HighlandPete always provides insights and is consistently thoughtful.

[mdsbuc]

Originally Posted by dd1981

Very well put.

Indeed! And, I'm glad I was able to read it, because I believe if I had heard Pete speaking it firsthand, and although I'm sure it would have sounded delightful, I wouldn't have understood half of it. I'm assuming Pete that you are indeed a Scot! It's funny how English looks pretty much the same no matter where it's written, but sounds so different when spoken. Nicely written, Pete!

[dd1981]

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

Indeed! And, I'm glad I was able to read it, because I believe if I had heard Pete speaking it firsthand, and although I'm sure it would have sounded delightful, I wouldn't have understood half of it. I'm assuming Pete that you are indeed a Scot! It's funny how English looks pretty much the same no matter where it's written, but sounds so different when spoken. Nicely written, Pete!

on the other hand not to change the subject, but nice engine choice on the mustang, thats one sick motor! Best NA motor Ford ever put out hands down! I love how tuner friendly they are and just sound so damn good. ps i work for fomoco

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Steering, size, lines, options, or whatever... I agree it has all moved on. That is always the case with new models, every model has its attractions and disappointments.

How the E90 has become the 3-series 'benchmark' model for BMW, I just don't know. Highly critised for design, inside and out, ugly looking to many, minimal non focued interior. Then the horrible ride characteristics, choppy sport suspension, run-flat tire issues, many lamented the passing of the E46.

I suppose a lot of how we feel, is where we come from, in the enthusiast pack. For me the E90/1 is an 'OK' model range, definitely not the best BMW in any respect.

My first introduction to the F30, both from a visual perspective and driving it was, BMW have moved on in the right direction. To be honest it is for me a near replacement to the E39 5-series, and because that car was the pinnacle of BMW engineering, (IMO), dare I say the real BMW 'DNA', (the best blend of sportiness and luxury), the F30 is a welcome move, in improving the 3-series. But with a wide range of options to build to our tastes.

But if we are hard core 3-series guys, again depending which generation we started with, (E21, E30, E36, E46 or E90) and of course the model and engine we prefer driving, then many variants of the F30 will definitely be a car in a different segment.

The size issue, let's put it into perspective, the E82 1-series is bigger than the E30, which many saw/see as a true 3-series sized car. But again, compared against what? Some like me, compare an E30 to the 5-series of the period, it is all so subjective. My E91 is bigger than the E12/E28 5-series I was driving in that period.

The steering issue, I do believe a lot has to do with model specification and wheel combinations. We are still running 'numb' run-flats and remember BMW has increased the tire profile, so we are bound to have a different road feel, even with EPS, just as the F10 has a completely different feel according to wheel size and options added to the model. But think about it, the E90 has been just the same. Steering is different according to model, wheel size and tire specification. Just that we've had a chance to appraise the differences and know what works best. Give the F30 a chance and I'm sure we'll be in the same place in a short while.

I'm pleased that the F30 appears to be a near replacement to the E39 5-series, but that is because that is where I sit as a BMW enthusiast, with that blend of sportiness and luxury that attracted me to BMW in the first place, many years ago.

I still echo my earlier comments that there is virtually something for everyone in the F30 range of builds. If not, there is always the smaller 1-series, if size is the issue and/or the M-cars if anyone feels something is lost in the sportiness of BMW.

It is easy to feel BMW has lost its way, I remember when the idea of a diesel in a BMW was one step too far. But to be frank, without the diesels I'm not sure BMW would be here these days, to even offer such brilliant cars as the F30. Sometimes we just have to go with the marketing men, it is sales that allows further development and success.

HighlandPete

Very well put. But while I agree with everything you said, including that the F30 is a fantastic car, consider that you are essentially arguing that the new 3er is the old 5er. So where is one to look for the old 3er (in spirit, not literally)?

You might say it's the 1er, but the first gen was not nearly as light weight or tossable as it could have been compared to the contemporary 3er. The new 1er is known to be even less engaging, and quite possibly one of the ugliest cars in the market right now, without hyperbole.

Beyond the "my car is better than your car" mentality that all of us are probably somewhat guilty of then, I do think that many of us here are genuinely not happy with the direction BMW has been taking lately. I understand why they have to do this, the Chinese market likely being the biggest factor, but the truth is that the F30 has moved a step or two away from what some of us wants, and that is a smallish, nice looking sports sedan that has a premium feel but also conserves a sense of connection and rawness.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by RASHID007

...I'm sure I'm not the only one that prefers the F30 over all previous 3 series. I've tried twice in the last 10 years to buy a 3 series and both times couldn't get myself to do it even though I've always been a huge BMW fan. Why? Because E90 and earlier was too small and cramped and lacking any hint of luxury...

You are not the sole person preferring the F30. There's nothing wrong with preferring the F30. Moreover, I posit that the majority of folks who obtain a 3er will agree with you.

I would describe the past 3 series cars as a the best blend of sports car handling and driving feel and day to day functional utility. I don't, didn't and probably won't ever see the 3er as a luxury car. It's sometimes referred to as an entry level luxury car but I thinks that's a misnomer. That a 3er costs at least $35K, and more commonly, $45-$50K doesn't make it a luxury car, but no small number of people feel that at that price a car should be luxurious in some way.

"Lacking any hint of luxury" seems a bit of an over statement for there are plenty if one wants to appoint the car with them: leather, solidly built and inspiring confidence when being driven, nav, cameras, automatic this and that, etc. I would agree that in terms of having true luxury furnishings and fittings (e.g. wool carpets, nappa leather, wool or silk head liner, silk lined compartments, top grain calf skin or lambskin everywhere one would typically see plastic or vinyl, etc.), the 3er doesn't have them, but then even most cars offered as luxury cars don't truly offer luxury, except perhaps in the area of technology -- of both the mechanical and convenience varieties.

Originally Posted by RASHID007

The interior was embarrassing. The trade off of performance vs luxury/interior/tech/space was poorly done. This F30 is the first BMW 3 series worth owning if you want a luxury car...

Later in your post, you say to us who value driving characteristics over luxury that if we want a sports car, buy a sports car. I say to you and your ilk, if you want a luxury car, don't buy a 3er. It is a utility car with sports car traits; it is not, nor has it ever been, a luxury car. Indeed, I cannot recall BMW ever marketing/positioning the 3er as a luxury car. It's no wonder you've been dissatisfied with previous 3 series cars.

I fully agree with you about buying cars for specific uses. Would you not buy a farm tractor because it isn't luxurious enough to drive around every day? I'm certain you wouldn't, but I offer that extreme analogy because it highlights what I think is the crux of your despondency with the prior 3 series. You seem to want the 3er to be something that is isn't. It is a general purpose, well built car that has as much of a sports cars' handling and performance ability as is feasible in a car that isn't a sports car.

Much as I'd like to get a sports car -- M3, 911, or whatever -- much of what such a car can do would be wasted on me. I'll likely never buy one. That said, when I am going about my daily activities, I want a car that has both enough room for routine stuff - groceries, dry cleaning, going to the movies, etc. -- and handling precision commensurate with my skills, and a 3er has been just that car.

Like you, I wanted a new car that filled the role my 20+ year old S Class filled, having more space and gizmos, and being more comfortable and ancier then my three series. So, I bought a 5 series car loaded with all sorts of gizmos that I would never consider having on a 3er.

So, right now, I can't identify any good reason to buy a 3er instead of a comparable MB, Lexus, Audi, VW, Infiniti, or any number of other brands' cars. It may be so that the F30 is still more a driver's car than its peers, but to me, that just means that none of them are drivers' cars. I like my e92 better than the F30, so I know I won't feel an impulse to replace my e92 any sooner as a result of the F30. That is the reason I've giving my son an F30 rather than my e92.

Originally Posted by RASHID007

Before now a 3 series buyer was buying a wannabe sports car stripped of luxury interior and acceptable space front and back top to bottom.

Well, that'd make the F30 a poseur of a different stripe for it isn't a luxury car, and frankly seems no nearer to being one than the E9x does. Furthermore, I don't agree that any 3er is a wannabe sports car, mainly because BMW offer a sports car, the M3. That the platform of the standard 3 series is used to craft the M3 doesn't make the 3er a wanna be sports car, but it does speak to the versatility and sports car potential of the standard 3 series.

Were it not for the expectations gap between what you want a 3er to be and what it really is, I'd say you need a fitness program more than you need a car for thinking the prior threes hadn't enough space. Perhaps you do daily carry more than one other person in your car; perhaps you routinely daily drive over 100 miles, or any number of other things necessitating a larger car on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by RASHID007

If you want a sports car get a sports car. If you want the perfect mix of luxury and performance then get an F30. The S4 is great no doubt about that. But if you love and want a BMW the F30 is the first 3 series worth buying if you want a LUXURY car too.

The paragraph above supports most clearly supports my point about the expectations gap being the real issue. Whereas heretofore the 3er was the perfect mix of sport and utility, it has become the perfect mix of sport and luxury. The car's character, I would agree, has changed. If that's the strategic direction BMW have chosen for the 3's foreseeable future, fine. As long as I continue to value sport over luxury in my daily driver, utility car, I'll buy the car that provides the keenest of that combination. That may be a BMW 3er, it may not. I'm not wedded to BMW; I want what I want. My goal is to have the car that best fits my desires, not to own a BMW.

Originally Posted by RASHID007

Ok now let the flaming of me begin (somebody call the E90 owners so they can tar and feather me!)...or perhaps people agree that this F30 3 series trumps all past 3 series by a wide margin and softer and bigger is not always bad. ...

In at least one key dimension, you and I are of one mind: we both believe in buying cars for specific purposes. I remain true to my belief, which I why I have a 3er, 5er, SUV and extra car for my kids to use as they learn to drive and before I buy them their own first car. What I don't do is deride the F30 because it isn't the car I think it ought to be.

The primary reason I won't buy an F30 is because I cannot buy it the way I want it. Though I still value sport over luxury, the fact is, I'm already over 50, and I value sport less now than I did 10 years ago. I doubt that trend will change, so I may yet buy an F30, provided I can get the sport suspension with an interior color I want. I don't prefer the lighter steering feel over the feel of my e92, but in most other regards, the F30 is just fine. It won't kill me to live with more lux and less sport.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Propagator

Very well put. But while I agree with everything you said, including that the F30 is a fantastic car, consider that you are essentially arguing that the new 3er is the old 5er. So where is one to look for the old 3er (in spirit, not literally)?

You might say it's the 1er, but the first gen was not nearly as light weight or tossable as it could have been compared to the contemporary 3er. The new 1er is known to be even less engaging, and quite possibly one of the ugliest cars in the market right now, without hyperbole.

Beyond the "my car is better than your car" mentality that all of us are probably somewhat guilty of then, I do think that many of us here are genuinely not happy with the direction BMW has been taking lately. I understand why they have to do this, the Chinese market likely being the biggest factor, but the truth is that the F30 has moved a step or two away from what some of us wants, and that is a smallish, nice looking sports sedan that has a premium feel but also conserves a sense of connection and rawness.

I agree this chasing bigger dimesions has got many a car maker into the same issues. When we have to look at the next model down, to get a size we "used to like", it does appear marketing and competing with the competition is the driving force. But on the other hand, many customers like the size improvements, more leg and shoulder room, trunk size, etc... bigger seems to score as an advancement, certainly does here in the UK across the manufacturers.

My own situation with the E60/1 being bigger than the E39, got me looking at the 3-series. The E46 wasn't big enough, the E90/1 'up sizing' made it nearly big enough, but for me not quite mature enough to really tick all the boxes, but certainly a very practical vehicle and a decent driving machine. Hence why I personally see the F30/1 as better cars, for my needs and tastes. I know I'm not representing other 3-series buyers, but I'd have no issue moving to the 1-series if I wanted a smaller BMW. An F20 125i M-sport with the right options, would do me well.

I'm not sure all markets have the same placement for the 3-series, but here in the UK, I know from a lot of UK comment, the F30 is getting very positive reviews. Partly because the model sits right in the mid family sector, so any extra space is welcome, as is the more mature and softer road manners. Our road surfaces are generally poor, so "a bit more refinement" has been the shout from many users. The idea of a premium sector car with a small but reasonably sporty and economical diesel engine (320d) is what gets many into the 3-series over here.

To put our UK market into perspective for used 3-series, of 200+ examples of the E91 wagon on the BMW national database, only 4 examples are 335i models, at less than 3 years old. Similarly there are only 4 examples of 335i sedans, at less than 3 years old.

HighlandPete

[Calmwinds]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Those who love the E90 have their right to love and enjoy any car they wish. The E90 was a very good 3 series to like.

Reality is those who don't like the F30 have no standing to come on an F30 enthusiast site and tell us what the F30 is, isn't, has become, or will be.
You don't have to like it for whatever reasons you have. It's obviously not the BMW 3 series for you.

But, don't be so arrogant in then defining who or what type of driver or person will like the F30, while insinuating that those who prefer luxury over performance will like the F30 over any previous 3 series.

Some of you are making grand assumptions that those of us who like the F30, and even like it better than the E90, are less of a driving enthusiast than you.
Well, you'd only be right in that you know how to an ass-umer.

Why waste your time? Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

+1000

If you don't like the F30, then stay in the E9X section.

[Calmwinds]

Based on my test drives, I feel the F30 is sportier than the E9X in terms of driving experience (particularly on the 328 models). It's definitely more driver oriented. I think they've done a great job on the electric steering. The only department it's a little too much of is the size.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Calmwinds

+1000

If you don't like the F30, then stay in the E9X section.

Why because you don't like people being mean to your new car?

Seriously as BMW enthusiasts we have every much of a right to criticize the F30 as you do to praise it. And the fact that ya'll are essentially telling us to f*ck off says a lot.

[bananachipz]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Those who love the E90 have their right to love and enjoy any car they wish. The E90 was a very good 3 series to like.

Reality is those who don't like the F30 have no standing to come on an F30 enthusiast site and tell us what the F30 is, isn't, has become, or will be.
You don't have to like it for whatever reasons you have. It's obviously not the BMW 3 series for you.

But, don't be so arrogant in then defining who or what type of driver or person will like the F30, while insinuating that those who prefer luxury over performance will like the F30 over any previous 3 series.

Some of you are making grand assumptions that those of us who like the F30, and even like it better than the E90, are less of a driving enthusiast than you.
Well, you'd only be right in that you know how to an ass-umer.

Why waste your time? Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

Amen brother..

[bananachipz]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Why because you don't like people being mean to your new car?

Seriously as BMW enthusiasts we have every much of a right to criticize the F30 as you do to praise it. And the fact that ya'll are essentially telling us to f*ck off says a lot.

As someone's pappy used to say... "if you ain't got nothin good to say....... stick with your E90"

LOL