[verbs]

I currently drive a 2008 M5 which I'm dropping off for sale in a few days, so I'm sure some of my comments are a bit biased. That said, I was planning on buying a 2013 M sport so I wanted to test drive the 335i to get an impression on the car overall, what options to get, etc.

I test drove the Drive for Team USA 335i. White, sport auto, 19" wheels, premium package, tech package, parking package, driver assistance package.

Here is my feedback:

1. In any automatic mode from eco to sport +, the car takes forever to downshift to the right gear for maximum acceleration. This was the biggest disappointment I had. Manual mode seems the only way to drive this car if you're an aggressive driver, which I am. The transmission shifts however were incredibly smooth and fast. Very impressed in that regard. That said, I think I'm going to have to get a manual because of how disappointed I was with the sport auto.

2. The brakes seemed subpar, and really weren't impressive to me. Didn't seem to bring the car to a stop as well as I would have liked.

3. Auto start/stop apparently doesn't work when it's hot out. I didn't notice it working, and the dealer said it might not work in the heat. It was 105 degrees outside when driving. The engine oil temp was at 235 degrees. Wonder what it would be like on a 115 degree day.

4. Handling was decent with the 225/255mm staggered tire, and the car frequently broke traction under full throttle at low speeds and accelerating out of turns. I couldn't fathom only having 225mm tires on the back on the standard 18" rims. For the wider tires in the back, the 19" wheels are a must in my book, or go M sport to get 255mm tires standard. To me better traction under acceleration is more of an issue than having more of a neutral balance with 18" 225mm tires wheels all around. I actually felt my 2007 335i coupe handled much better, though that car was a much harsher ride than the new 3 series. This car did a great job soaking up bumps and road imperfections. Almost 5 series like.

5. Lane departure if great if you're someone who always uses their turn signal. When there's no traffic around on a freeway I'll frequently change lanes without signalling, and I could see the lane departure getting annoying.

6. The parking package is FANTASTIC. So many ways to analyze parking, which holds value to me when parking in a tight parking lot (small aisle width like a stadium parking garage), and I want to make sure my car isn't sticking out in the aisle any more than is necessary. The 360 degree camera is amazing, you can see how straight your car is parked between the lines without opening your doors. That was the best part of all. I'm on the fence ordering this where I wasn't even considering it before. Blows the doors off my old parking sensor system on my 2007 335i.

7. The Harmon Kardon sound system is a must if you listen to music. After hearing the basic system in this car and checking out another one that had HK in it, the system is night and day especially with the bass response. Bass on the stock stereo when cranked up sounded muddled and the stock system speakers couldn't handle it.

8. Leather vs. leathette. Looked at cars that had each. The leatherette seemed softer/more pliable, and from afar you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They've come a long way; most people wouldn't know the difference. Sure there was a smell difference, but I'm not sure smell is worth $1500.

9. Center console, what a joke.

10. Electric steering was awful in tight turning in the parking lot. Did not like the feel of it at all. Variable steering is a must in my book for this reason alone.

11. HUD seemed pretty worthless showing just speed and radio stations only when you're changing them.....I did not get a chance to test it out with navigation or other features. I did not see speed limits popping up so I assume mine wasn't equipped with that. This I don't have a great feel for capability wise.

12. Navagation screen was awesome, I-drive much improved over the older versions. There's a lot to learn on this car, it'll take a while to get the most out of all the features.

13. Comfort access and the trunk....just sticking your foot under the trunk opens the trunk. Damn cool if your hands are full.



A lot of thought went into this car, and in the information age, BMW was smart in that it gives the driver the option to get so much more information either through the internet or from the car itself. To me however I feel like this car lost a little of that BMW soul over my prior 335i. Maybe having a stickshift on my last 335i was part of it, though I've driven a few automatics of the E90/E92 variety. In the end, I feel this car is less of a drivers car than prior E90/E92 cars, and more of a social/luxury car.

[DrivenByE30]

honestly i like you review the best over the others...

[justinnum1]

335 needs 255 in the back

[The X Men]

verbs, spot on, I felt the same way after my test drive. The F30 is a fine car, but overall, I am not sure its an improvment over the E90.

[CE750Jockey]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

335 needs 255 in the back

From what I've read, it sounds like the 335 needs more up front, if you know what I mean. HP, that is.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

From what I've read, it sounds like the 335 needs more up front, if you know what I mean. HP, that is.

Unfortunately, even tunes are limited on the N55 motor vs. my old N54 motor. Similar tune levels were getting about 380-400hp out those cars, but only 360hp from the N55.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

From what I've read, it sounds like the 335 needs more up front, if you know what I mean. HP, that is.

N54>N55...one of the reasons i didnt ge the new 335, even tho the exhaust sounds nice.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

N54>N55...one of the reasons i didnt ge the new 335, even tho the exhaust sounds nice.

I'll miss my ol' N54.


Almost tempting to get a used 2009-2010 instead.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by verbs

I'll miss my ol' N54.


Almost tempting to get a used 2009-2010 instead.

do it. N54 was just pure epic, and get an exhasut and chip on it. find one with like 25-30Kmiles

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by verbs

I currently drive a 2008 M5 which I'm dropping off for sale in a few days, so I'm sure some of my comments are a bit biased. That said, I was planning on buying a 2013 M sport so I wanted to test drive the 335i to get an impression on the car overall, what options to get, etc.

I test drove the Drive for Team USA 335i. White, sport auto, 19" wheels, premium package, tech package, parking package, driver assistance package.

Here is my feedback:

1. In any automatic mode from eco to sport +, the car takes forever to downshift to the right gear for maximum acceleration. This was the biggest disappointment I had. Manual mode seems the only way to drive this car if you're an aggressive driver, which I am. The transmission shifts however were incredibly smooth and fast. Very impressed in that regard. That said, I think I'm going to have to get a manual because of how disappointed I was with the sport auto.

2. The brakes seemed subpar, and really weren't impressive to me. Didn't seem to bring the car to a stop as well as I would have liked.

3. Auto start/stop apparently doesn't work when it's hot out. I didn't notice it working, and the dealer said it might not work in the heat. It was 105 degrees outside when driving. The engine oil temp was at 235 degrees. Wonder what it would be like on a 115 degree day.

4. Handling was decent with the 225/255mm staggered tire, and the car frequently broke traction under full throttle at low speeds and accelerating out of turns. I couldn't fathom only having 225mm tires on the back on the standard 18" rims. For the wider tires in the back, the 19" wheels are a must in my book, or go M sport to get 255mm tires standard. To me better traction under acceleration is more of an issue than having more of a neutral balance with 18" 225mm tires wheels all around. I actually felt my 2007 335i coupe handled much better, though that car was a much harsher ride than the new 3 series. This car did a great job soaking up bumps and road imperfections. Almost 5 series like.

5. Lane departure if great if you're someone who always uses their turn signal. When there's no traffic around on a freeway I'll frequently change lanes without signalling, and I could see the lane departure getting annoying.

6. The parking package is FANTASTIC. So many ways to analyze parking, which holds value to me when parking in a tight parking lot (small aisle width like a stadium parking garage), and I want to make sure my car isn't sticking out in the aisle any more than is necessary. The 360 degree camera is amazing, you can see how straight your car is parked between the lines without opening your doors. That was the best part of all. I'm on the fence ordering this where I wasn't even considering it before. Blows the doors off my old parking sensor system on my 2007 335i.

7. The Harmon Kardon sound system is a must if you listen to music. After hearing the basic system in this car and checking out another one that had HK in it, the system is night and day especially with the bass response. Bass on the stock stereo when cranked up sounded muddled and the stock system speakers couldn't handle it.

8. Leather vs. leathette. Looked at cars that had each. The leatherette seemed softer/more pliable, and from afar you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They've come a long way; most people wouldn't know the difference. Sure there was a smell difference, but I'm not sure smell is worth $1500.

9. Center console, what a joke.

10. Electric steering was awful in tight turning in the parking lot. Did not like the feel of it at all. Variable steering is a must in my book for this reason alone.

11. HUD seemed pretty worthless showing just speed and radio stations only when you're changing them.....I did not get a chance to test it out with navigation or other features. I did not see speed limits popping up so I assume mine wasn't equipped with that. This I don't have a great feel for capability wise.

12. Navagation screen was awesome, I-drive much improved over the older versions. There's a lot to learn on this car, it'll take a while to get the most out of all the features.

13. Comfort access and the trunk....just sticking your foot under the trunk opens the trunk. Damn cool if your hands are full.



A lot of thought went into this car, and in the information age, BMW was smart in that it gives the driver the option to get so much more information either through the internet or from the car itself. To me however I feel like this car lost a little of that BMW soul over my prior 335i. Maybe having a stickshift on my last 335i was part of it, though I've driven a few automatics of the E90/E92 variety. In the end, I feel this car is less of a drivers car than prior E90/E92 cars, and more of a social/luxury car.

Yes, auto stop/start won't activate if there is a need for AC and it's hot above a certain temp. IT also won't activate if the engine is cold.

Your take on the sport auto in the 335i is pretty much my take on it.
For whatever reason the 328i with sport auto that I drove was much more responsive to pedal input in auto mode. Even a moderate 1/4 throttle push of the pedal and the trans would quickly downshift a gear. In the 335i I was unpleasantly surprised at how low it took for a gear kick down and it needed a bigger throttle input. In the 328i the trans just felt "locked" to the engine, much like manual's clutch.
For this reason if I go with the 335i I may actually go with the MT.
Tomorrow I'm heading out to drive both 328 and 335i again, to see if I get the same impression.

For the brakes I like the pedal feel and pressure to friction on both models. We have to remember though that none of these new cars have had their brakes bedded properly, so harder braking impressions can be off. I didn't do any very hard or threshold braking though because of how new the car is and I didn't want to mess things up for the actual buyer of the car.

Leatherette is very nice. Even in my 2003 E46 325i, I had leatherette and it was very soft and MUCH MUCH more durable than the Dakota leather in my 135i. I'm with you leatherette is far from a deal breaker, it's very nice.

The 335i I drove had the variable sport steering. I actually didn't like it.
I don't think it's going to fix what you're lookng for.
At parking lot speeds it's very light and when it stiffens up it feels unnatural. Not for me.
The 328i has the standard rack and it felt more natural for an electric assist system.

I agree this new 3 feels "softer", mainly due to the sport suspension actually feeling softer and not as firm as the E46 and E90.
But, I don't see that it's not a drivers car. I'm sure a MT version helps retain the sport feel.

So, which one are you getting?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Leatherette is very nice. Even in my 2003 E46 325i, I had leatherette and it was very soft and MUCH MUCH more durable than the Dakota leather in my 135i. I'm with you leatherette is far from a deal breaker, it's very nice.

Not trying to threadjack or veer off topic too much here but regarding the leatherette, I agree that one of the primary differences between leather and leatherette is the "smell" of the leatherette - especially when getting into the car after it has been sitting out in the sun for a few hours on a hot summer day. Very different smell than leather.

I have noticed one additional difference when I've driven an E90 loaner with leatherette seats - The leatherette just does not breathe as well as the leather and can induce a bit of SBS (sweaty back syndrome) when getting into a hot car (at least until the AC starts to kick in).

Aside from that, the look/feel differences are quite de minimis.

[jtuds]

If the new 335i is less of a driver's car than the last generation 335i, or if, as some claim, it is no longer a driver's car, can someone please articulate what this car lacks that the previous generation has?

I have only ever driven the f30, and I think it is great, so I want to know what I'd have liked more about the last go-round.....because Lord knows the interior is a great improvement.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by RPM90

For the brakes I like the pedal feel and pressure to friction on both models. We have to remember though that none of these new cars have had their brakes bedded properly, so harder braking impressions can be off. I didn't do any very hard or threshold braking though because of how new the car is and I didn't want to mess things up for the actual buyer of the car.

Leatherette is very nice. Even in my 2003 E46 325i, I had leatherette and it was very soft and MUCH MUCH more durable than the Dakota leather in my 135i. I'm with you leatherette is far from a deal breaker, it's very nice.

The 335i I drove had the variable sport steering. I actually didn't like it.
I don't think it's going to fix what you're lookng for.
At parking lot speeds it's very light and when it stiffens up it feels unnatural. Not for me.
The 328i has the standard rack and it felt more natural for an electric assist system.

I agree this new 3 feels "softer", mainly due to the sport suspension actually feeling softer and not as firm as the E46 and E90.
But, I don't see that it's not a drivers car. I'm sure a MT version helps retain the sport feel.

So, which one are you getting?

I still think this car is a drivers car, just not as much as the E90. Less natural connection and doesn't handle as well are my main reasons for feeling this way.

Good call on the brakes not being bedded properly, could definitely be an issue.

As far as what I'm getting, thinking:

2013 M sport in Estoril blue
Manual tranny
Dynamic Handling package
Technology package
Premium package
HK surround sound

Invoice on this is roughly $49,000. I can get the car for worst case scenario $49,500 before any fees/taxes.

Subtract $2500 from available incentives, and the car becomes $47,000 before fees/taxes.

[Pele96]

Is it fair to say the BMW will listen and make some minor changes on the 2013 models?

[Mrcarcrazy]

Where'd you get invoice pricing on the 2013? And what incentives? oh and What dealer will sell for 500 over "invoice" before incentives?

Originally Posted by verbs

I still think this car is a drivers car, just not as much as the E90. Less natural connection and doesn't handle as well are my main reasons for feeling this way.

Good call on the brakes not being bedded properly, could definitely be an issue.

As far as what I'm getting, thinking:

2013 M sport in Estoril blue
Manual tranny
Dynamic Handling package
Technology package
Premium package
HK surround sound

Invoice on this is roughly $49,000. I can get the car for worst case scenario $49,500 before any fees/taxes.

Subtract $2500 from available incentives, and the car becomes $47,000 before fees/taxes.

[WPG335]

Originally Posted by jtuds

If the new 335i is less of a driver's car than the last generation 335i, or if, as some claim, it is no longer a driver's car, can someone please articulate what this car lacks that the previous generation has?

I have only ever driven the f30, and I think it is great, so I want to know what I'd have liked more about the last go-round.....because Lord knows the interior is a great improvement.

I had a 2007 e90 6mt 335 sport and was running a JB4, downpipes, intercooler, intake and modded exhaust, so good for about 380-400 HP. the car pulled like a train, really quick but still liveable as a DD. it definitely rode harder than the F30 335 spotline auto that I traded it in on. Having said that, I do not really miss it. I have outgrown the boyracer phase, perhaps. The steering did feel alittle heavier and i preferred the staggered setup to my F30's 18" square setup, but that is easily rectified aftermarket.

I would like the sport suspension on the F30, as it is definitely a softer ride, but I no longer feel like I have to have it. I would drop it with H&R's as much for aesthetics as performance. I find the engine is very smooth and linear with more than enough power for street use. The interior is far and away better than the E90, not even close. The center console is fine and the goofy idrive screen is just bmw trying to play of the ridiculous tablet craze currently underway. personally I hated the double hump dash on idrive equipped E90's, just personal opinion.

Honestly, the E90 was and is a great car, and I think the F30 is a great car. I would still be a happy camper if I had my E90 and was unable to move into an F30. I am just happier still that i could make the move.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

Where'd you get invoice pricing on the 2013? And what incentives? oh and What dealer will sell for 500 over "invoice" before incentives?

Most dealer in the North East is only discounting $1000 to $1500 off MSRP.

[doublevanosrc]

I feel ya on the brakes verbs, not sure if its teh brakes or the tires.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

Where'd you get invoice pricing on the 2013? And what incentives? oh and What dealer will sell for 500 over "invoice" before incentives?

Ones around me will in the Phoenix area. Invoice pricing is a simple formula.

Invoice on the base car price is MSRP x .92
Invoice on all options/features/lines is MSRP x .91

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by verbs

I still think this car is a drivers car, just not as much as the E90. Less natural connection and doesn't handle as well are my main reasons for feeling this way.

Good call on the brakes not being bedded properly, could definitely be an issue.

As far as what I'm getting, thinking:

2013 M sport in Estoril blue
Manual tranny
Dynamic Handling package
Technology package
Premium package
HK surround sound

Invoice on this is roughly $49,000. I can get the car for worst case scenario $49,500 before any fees/taxes.

Subtract $2500 from available incentives, and the car becomes $47,000 before fees/taxes.

Nice setup.

What are the $2500 in incentives?
That's a good bit in saving.

I'm also considering MT. As I've written before, I really like this new sport auto. But, it was much better in the 328i, when I drove the 335i with sport auto, in sport mode, that trans didn't seem to respond as quickly.
IN the 328i, in "drive" mode, a 1/3 throttle push resulted in an immediate kick down with no delay in power delivery at all. I pressed on the throttle pedal and the car just moved forward in one smooth motion as the drop down happened quickly and smoothly. IN the 335i, in "drive' mode, I pushed on the throttle about 1/3 to 1/2 and there was a noticeable delay, then it kicked down and off it went. It felt more like a standard auto.

Something to consider, as it occurred to me while driving the 335i sport auto.
Granted, when driving an MT, we don't consider the time it takes to clutch in, shift, clutch out, throttle, go, which probably takes as long as the 335i did. But, it's a perception thing. Since we aren't shifting, we press the throttle and expect the car to move.
This aspect is what made the 328i sport auto so brilliant.
It took less time to shift down and go, then it would have in a MT where I would have to clutch in, shift, clutch out, go.
Instead of all that I just pressed the gas pedal and off it went.
This difference has me puzzled, and that's why I need to go drive the 328i and 335i again, but with different cars than last time, to see how much variance there is.

If I go with MT, then I don't have to consider or deal with this, as I know what to expect with an MT, and with a BMW MT.
I read up on the MT in the F30. BMW claims to have refined some of the shift mechanism with smoother operating bushing in the linkage.
Plus, with Msport we get a short shift included.
And, we save $500 in not getting the sport auto trans.

You said that you felt the 335i N55 to not be as powerful as your E90 335i. How much of that perception do you think is attributable to your E90 being an MT and the F30 with the 8spd?

According to BMW's numbers, which are very conservative, both the MT 335i and sport auto have a 5.4 0-60.
That's with the regular auto. BMW claims the sport auto has faster shifts, so maybe the sport auto might have a very slight accel advantage.
0-60 requires only 1 shift, so time difference won't be much. But a run in the 1/4 and to 100mph or 120, may favor the sport auto.
Don't know, just a mental exercise.
The sport auto also should have better MPG, due to having 2 over drive gears.

IN the 328i, the regular auto is rated to be .2 seconds faster than the MT. MT in the 328i isn't geared like the 335i MT.

Auto in either car is the same.
I wonder why BMW didn't just use the same MT in each car?
Granted engine characteristics may dictate different ratios, but if that were really true here, then why use the same auto trans and same gears?
If the 335i MT is as fast as the auto, then it'l likely that the 328i MT would be as fast as the auto, if the 328i has the same MT as the 335i.

In the 128i and 135i, the MT's are not even made by the same company.
I think that may also have been true in the E90, and may be true with the F30 as well. I'll have to look for the info.

My simple setup if I go MT:
2013
335i Msport Orion Silver/Coral Red
MT
HK Audio
Leather
-All the items I wanted in the 2012 prem pkg. are included in the base 2013. I don't think I'd like comfort access. I like using my key/fob as I know where it is at all times. With CC I can see myself doing something absent minded with it.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I feel ya on the brakes verbs, not sure if its teh brakes or the tires.

After taking notice in my 135i, the brake pedal in the 135i does have a shorter travel to engage braking. Once there though, it seems the 335i requires the same level of pressure to braking as my 135i.
Overall, the brakes in my 135i 'feel' better as the brake pedal is less, so it seems to brake sooner, and maybe even harder.

It's kinda hard, and unfair, to compare 135i brakes to the new 3's.
As you know, the 135i brakes are damn nice for stockers.
It would have been really cool if BMW put the 135i brakes on the 328/335i Msport. 135i brakes have very nice looking calipers.
Can't go wrong with 6 posts on the front and 4 in the rear.

Are you going for a new 3 too?

[verbs]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Nice setup.

What are the $2500 in incentives?

BMW Car Club of America- $500. Drive for Team USA $1000. Recent Graduate (MBA degree this month)- $1000+ best guaranteed rate.


That's a good bit in saving.

Originally Posted by RPM90

Granted, when driving an MT, we don't consider the time it takes to clutch in, shift, clutch out, throttle, go, which probably takes as long as the 335i did. But, it's a perception thing. Since we aren't shifting, we press the throttle and expect the car to move.

It's not so much a perception thing, as I know what gear I want to be in more than the car does, so for example, knowing I'm going to have a passing lane open up in say 2 seconds, I'll downshift and be in the right gear when the lane opens up. In the automatic unless I'm in manual mode, that's not happening.

Originally Posted by RPM90

You said that you felt the 335i N55 to not be as powerful as your E90 335i. How much of that perception do you think is attributable to your E90 being an MT and the F30 with the 8spd?

This is just a fact. There are independent dyno numbers and tests to back this up. The N54 335i makes about 20 more horsepower stock than the F30 does, but it's all in the upper RPM range, whereas the N55 makes a bit more torque down low, but falls flat on its face at higher RPMs. This difference in the higher rpms is exaggerated even more when you add a tune into the equation, with similar tunes getting 360hp on the N55 but 380-400hp on the N54.

Originally Posted by RPM90

According to BMW's numbers, which are very conservative, both the MT 335i and sport auto have a 5.4 0-60.
That's with the regular auto. BMW claims the sport auto has faster shifts, so maybe the sport auto might have a very slight accel advantage.
0-60 requires only 1 shift, so time difference won't be much. But a run in the 1/4 and to 100mph or 120, may favor the sport auto.
Don't know, just a mental exercise.
The sport auto also should have better MPG, due to having 2 over drive gears.

Traction permitting, the auto should have the advantage off the line as it has much steeper gearing in 1st gear and by the time the manual has shifted into 3rd gear, the auto has already shifted into 4th.....that extra gear should keep the auto in a higher/tigher rpm range that helps the auto tranny car stay in a more optimal power range. 8th gear in the auto has a sizeable gearing advantage from a mpg perspective as well. So in theory the auto should be better in both of those areas.

Originally Posted by RPM90

I wonder why BMW didn't just use the same MT in each car?
Granted engine characteristics may dictate different ratios,

You just answered your own question

Originally Posted by RPM90

but if that were really true here, then why use the same auto trans and same gears?

Cost/laziness. With 8 tigher spaced gears in the auto, it's easier to mask not ideal gearing than it is with only 6 gears that aren't spaced so close.