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      05-04-2012, 07:13 PM   #1
Juventus
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Ditching RFT's on delivery

Hi all. I've been frequenting this form for a while and found it to be the most informative of any automotive blogs.

My Imperial Blue 328i sport line finally arrived at the dealership. It has the Conti RFT's. On my request, the Little Rock Dealership agreed to swap the RFT's for Micellin PSS for an extra $165+ ( less than $200). Disregarding the cost, is the Michellin PSS a big improvement over the Conti RFT's?

I ask this because I had the brilliant idea to have Conti Extreme Contact DWS ( not RFT) installed on my E92 M3 once the OEM PS2 wore out. Bad mistake. I couldn't believe the body roll associated with those Contis'. Grip was poor and the car swayed too much in moderate crosswinds.

Thoughts?
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      05-04-2012, 07:32 PM   #2
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I don't know anything about the Continentals but that seems like a great price for some fantastic Michelins.
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      05-05-2012, 05:13 AM   #3
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Why would you ever fit the DWS to a M3 ?
The RFT Continentals would outperform them.
DWS stands fro Dry Wet & Snow. They are not meant for summer dry weather performance on cars like the M3.

The PSS are in a different league to the DWS
PSS are extreme performance Summer tires, as are the RFT Conti SportContact 5 from BMW and the old PS2


Have you tried the original Conti Sport Contact 5 RFT ?
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      05-05-2012, 06:04 AM   #4
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1. So does anyone know if the Michelins are a big improvement over the run flats and worth the $200?

2. What do you plan to do if get a flat?

3. Will the dealer move the tire pressure monitors into the Michelins and will they work correctly?
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      05-05-2012, 06:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juventus View Post
Hi all. I've been frequenting this form for a while and found it to be the most informative of any automotive blogs.

My Imperial Blue 328i sport line finally arrived at the dealership. It has the Conti RFT's. On my request, the Little Rock Dealership agreed to swap the RFT's for Micellin PSS for an extra $165+ ( less than $200). Disregarding the cost, is the Michellin PSS a big improvement over the Conti RFT's?
You are going to find out.

I imagine you will be one of the first to get impressions of the PSS on the F30 chassis.

BTW, what was wrong with the Conti RFT, for the decision to go PSS? (Assuming you tested an F30 car on the Conti and found them wanting).

The F30 is a different animal on RFTs, than any other BMW I've driven. But I imagine the PSS will be a superb tire on the F30 chassis.


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      05-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASHID007 View Post
1. So does anyone know if the Michelins are a big improvement over the run flats and worth the $200?

2. What do you plan to do if get a flat?

3. Will the dealer move the tire pressure monitors into the Michelins and will they work correctly?
1. Easily. While run-flats have greatly improved they are not yet anything like a real performance tire.

2. Most of us rarely have flats, it is pretty much a non-issue. You can carry a flat repair kit, like Corvette's high performance models or Porsche. You can rely on roadside assistance, etc.

3. Yes.
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      05-05-2012, 09:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
1. Easily. While run-flats have greatly improved they are not yet anything like a real performance tire.

2. Most of us rarely have flats, it is pretty much a non-issue. You can carry a flat repair kit, like Corvette's high performance models or Porsche. You can rely on roadside assistance, etc.

3. Yes.
I gotta disagree with you on #1. Keep in mind that the car was engineered (ride and handling) exclusively for run-flats and their stiffer sidewalls. I standard tire may make the ride/handling too soft. There may be no improvement, it could get better or worse. I think it's a bit of a crap shoot.
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      05-05-2012, 09:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
I gotta disagree with you on #1. Keep in mind that the car was engineered (ride and handling) exclusively for run-flats and their stiffer sidewalls. I standard tire may make the ride/handling too soft. There may be no improvement, it could get better or worse. I think it's a bit of a crap shoot.
Possible, but I doubt it.

Run-flats remain a dreadful compromise. Additionally, modern max performance tires have very stiff sidewalls, especially in lower aspect ratio versions.

Every other car with which I have experience which came stock with run-craps has greatly benefited from "real" tires.
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      05-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #9
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I'm sorry I didn't clarify myself. The dealer still has not put the PSS on. The < $200 was just a quote. I still haven't taken delivery of the car.

I remember when I bought my E60 535 sport in 2008, I was pleasantly surprised by the OEM Dunlop RFT's.
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      05-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Juventus View Post
I'm sorry I didn't clarify myself. The dealer still has not put the PSS on. The < $200 was just a quote. I still haven't taken delivery of the car.

I remember when I bought my E60 535 sport in 2008, I was pleasantly surprised by the OEM Dunlop RFT's.
The current generation of RTFs are quite good. I was impressed with the Pirelli P7s that came on mine. The "grip" issue is that the OEM tires are lower rolling resistance.
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      05-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #11
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Has anyone tried swapping out the rtfs for normal tires? If do please report on the performance difference.

I am seriously considering this when my 335i arrives next month.

Is there a resale market for the stock tires or is the best bet to talk the dealer into switching them at delivery?
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      05-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #12
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I will be replacing the S001s with non-runflats once I burn through them. They are decent enough that they don't need to be immediately replaced. It was a night and day difference in my old 135 when I went to normal tires. I suspect that the difference with these third generation runflats will be somewhat less.
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      05-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASHID007 View Post
Has anyone tried swapping out the rtfs for normal tires? If do please report on the performance difference.

I am seriously considering this when my 335i arrives next month.

Is there a resale market for the stock tires or is the best bet to talk the dealer into switching them at delivery?
I have a set of PSS sitting in my garage, to switch out the stock RFT's.
RFT's are a compromise. Just as all season tires are a compromise. There is nothing wrong with sticking with the RF, as most people will. But I'm guessing most of those sticking to the stock tires also do not mod their cars much. Just because it's a BMW does not mean it can't be improved. It might be worthy to note BMW has put PSS tires on the last M3.

In addition low resistance tires are meant to improve fuel economy, not grip during acceleration or braking. Fuel economy might be important to you......if not, there may be a better tire for you.

If your driving style is aggressive then a max performance tire should generally out perform a RF and esp an all season RF tire.

I will get the PSS's put on in two weeks and will report back.
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      05-05-2012, 03:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASHID007 View Post
1. So does anyone know if the Michelins are a big improvement over the run flats and worth the $200?

2. What do you plan to do if get a flat?

3. Will the dealer move the tire pressure monitors into the Michelins and will they work correctly?
First of all i am not sure how much are the contientals because they are not avaliable so far i guess i couldnt find the price anywhere. But Michelin PSS wholesale price is $212.00 and Pirelli P7 RFT $266.00

1)Does it worth to $200 i am not sure since michelins are cheaper than the continentals dealers should be at least doing a free swap since they will be selling the other tires as a brand new tires.

2) If you get a screw on your tire you do have a TPMS(tire pressure monitoring system) on your vehicle as long as it is not a big hole you should be able to go to a tire reapir facility safely which 95% of thwe time that is what happens. Unless someone slash your tires or you hit something and blow your tire call the road side assistrance.

3) your sensor are on your valve stems not on your tire so there is nothing to do about your sensors.
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      05-05-2012, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Possible, but I doubt it.

Run-flats remain a dreadful compromise. Additionally, modern max performance tires have very stiff sidewalls, especially in lower aspect ratio versions.

Every other car with which I have experience which came stock with run-craps has greatly benefited from "real" tires.
I find the new run flat tires nearly indistinguishable from non-run flats. Far better tires than 5 or 6 years ago when BMW starting putting them on the 3-series.

That said, the Michelin PSS tires are better than the Pirelli P7 Cinturato All-Season tires I have on my 328i, no doubt, but I'd have to change them out in the brief winter we have here in Big D. Still considering doing just that, though.
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      05-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #16
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I find the new run flat tires nearly indistinguishable from non-run flats. Far better tires than 5 or 6 years ago when BMW starting putting them on the 3-series.
They are indeed greatly improved. Yet, even BMW pushes them as a safety feature, not performance. For most of us, dumping the run-flats is night and day.

I find even the newest to be far from close to "nearly indistinguishable" but, if this is your conclusion, there is every reason to stick with run-flats.
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      05-05-2012, 07:32 PM   #17
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My main concern is the low rolling resistance and handling/grip.

How about switching to 235 wide tires at the same time as removing the run flats. Has anyone put 235 wide on the 18" sport like rims?
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      05-05-2012, 09:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by RASHID007 View Post
My main concern is the low rolling resistance and handling/grip.
Run-flats typically have low rolling resistance and less grip; comparable regular tires have higher rolling resistance and higher grip. The latter weigh less and feel quicker as well.

Quote:
How about switching to 235 wide tires at the same time as removing the run flats. Has anyone put 235 wide on the 18" sport like rims?
To keep the same diameter you will need to go to 255/40 on an 18" wheel, although it would be close with a 235. Keep in mind however that wider is not necessarily better for performance, unless you happen to just like the look.
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      05-05-2012, 10:21 PM   #19
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My last car came with Pirelli P6 Four Seasons. Garbage. Switched them to Michelin Pilot Exaltos A/S. Good improvement, but not acceptable as all season in Cleveland winters. Next set was Continental DWS. Much better tire than the Exaltos for "all season." Contis were quiet, but soft. Grip was improved in wet, mild improvement in dry over Exaltos, but would not buy them again due to repeated balancing issues and overly compliant sidewalls. If their sidewall was more rigid it would have been greatly improved.

My 328 has the Cinturatos and I am going to ditch them for Potenza RE970AS. Was looking at PZero Nero A/S but Tirerack gives the edge to the Bridgestones. I still need something to get me through winter and I dont want to go back and forth each winter. And, I'll be throwing a donut spare in the almost always empty trunk.
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      05-06-2012, 03:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
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T

I find even the newest to be far from close to "nearly indistinguishable" but, if this is your conclusion, there is every reason to stick with run-flats.
Which make do you have on your car ?

A test with journalists here found they could not distinguish which cars had normal S001 and which had Runflat S001 on a pan and track test. Was done a while ago on E90 before the F30 launch
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      05-06-2012, 10:10 AM   #21
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I would not switch to conventional tires, for those of us that did that on E90s it was a great disappointment. all the suspension bushings are geared for the stiff run flats when you take that away, you have very soft tires and very soft bushings, and that's a very very poor combination. Many of us have spent a significant amount of money on suspension upgrades to undo this effect.
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      05-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I would not switch to conventional tires, for those of us that did that on E90s it was a great disappointment. all the suspension bushings are geared for the stiff run flats when you take that away, you have very soft tires and very soft bushings, and that's a very very poor combination. Many of us have spent a significant amount of money on suspension upgrades to undo this effect.
I'm going to have to disagree on this point. I replaced my RFTs on my E92 with Conti DWS, and I've never noticed "very softness". Since I'm going to lease the F30....I'm trying to determine whether it's a good idea to store the RFTs immediately, and just purchase some new non-RFTs.
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