[Blake P]

Originally Posted by Elk

The stock brakes are more than capable to handle this.

So is a Camry. Please understand that some of us have higher standards and "capable" won't cut it.

[Mrcarcrazy]

Originally Posted by Blake P

So is a Camry. Please understand that some of us have higher standards and "capable" won't cut it.

I like you.

[_BMWnEwBiE_]

Do we have any stats on stopping distance when you have M brakes. I think 60-0 is 115ft or 119 something like that which is bad what about with M brakes.

[Elk]

Motor Trend, F30 335i, 60-0 109 ft

P.S. 115-119 is not "bad." Moreover, oddly, the average driver will use less than 50% of maximum braking available - even in an emergency. Drivers are typically afraid of the performance of any vehicle, even one in which they are comfortable. It is weird.

[_BMWnEwBiE_]

Originally Posted by Elk

Motor Trend, F30 335i, 60-0 109 ft

P.S. 115-119 is not "bad." Moreover, oddly, the average driver will use less than 50% of maximum braking available - even in an emergency. Drivers are typically afraid of the performance of any vehicle, even one in which they are comfortable. It is weird.

this information is from Edmunds

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...and-video.html
"Braking is disappointing, too. The 2012 BMW 328i stops from 60 mph in 115 feet, and shows fade by the fourth stop. The A4 stopped in 103 feet, and the last 335i we tested managed 109 feet as did the G25."

It is what it is i think every feet is very important when it comes to emergency. Before in different occasions i end up stopping few inches before i rear ended someone.

People do not realize but your tires and your brakes are one of the most important factors to avoid an accident. Of course besides Human mistakes.

[Red Bread]

The Edmunds test was on those horrible P7's, right? I'd imagine a change to a better tire would put it right back in the 105-110 ft range. Even if that thing had the brakes off a Panamera Turbo S but still had the P7 tires, it would probably still have 115" performance.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by Elk

Moreover, oddly, the average driver will use less than 50% of maximum braking available - even in an emergency.

I don't know where you got the 50% maximum braking available number even in an emergency. I don't know anyone who doesn't stand 100% on the brake when there's a vehicle stopped in front of them and they're in the situation of "OMG it's almost too late." Thus why ABS was created because idiots stood on the brakes instead of threshold braked.

But let's just say if the average driver only use 50% of the maximum braking available and there are two choices...

1) Car that stops in 109 ft
and
2) Car that stops in say 119 ft

That's a difference of 10 ft. Now that's at threshold 100% maximum braking. Now if the average driver only uses 50%, then you would add distance to it. So, let's say 3-5 ft as it's not a linear progression or 13 to 15 feet. That's a full BMW f30 3-series car length you just smashed through.

Brakes, tires and suspension in my mind is in the category of safety equipment for me especially in higher HP cars. These are places where good enough or capable is not acceptable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tires and brake pads will be the most cost effective way to get these cars to stop quicker. Even the european market factory pad would probably get you better stopping distances. Do I want these performance brakes... hell yes. But can I justify the price when a set of pads will do 99.999% as well for that 1 emergency braking... not really.

[Red Bread]

If bad braking performance really had anything to do with car reputations, Honda would have been gone ages ago.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The Edmunds test was on those horrible P7's, right? I'd imagine a change to a better tire would put it right back in the 105-110 ft range. Even if that thing had the brakes off a Panamera Turbo S but still had the P7 tires, it would probably still have 115" performance.

As much crap as I give the P7 for not being a great handling tire, I've come to realize that the initial break in period to scrub off the curing agent seemed to last longer and be slipperier than most new tires I've used. They're no Michellin or Pirelli Summer Tire, but they do come in very nicely after that initial period. The more miles I scrub on them, the better they've become. As much as I've come around on the P7s, I'm switching to a set of Pilot Super Sports the second they cure my vibrating steering. Don't want the non-factory tires to be a place they point to as the cause.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Blake P

So is a Camry. Please understand that some of us have higher standards and "capable" won't cut it.

A street driver is not going to be held back by the stock brakes. Yes, at the track, they are going to fade - but you are not going to be making a multiple back to back threshold stops from 80mph on the street. If you are, there are much more important considerations to take into account - such as venue.

I appreciate that many of you think you bought a sports car and your skills are such Sebastian Vettel would fear you if only you had access to better equipment. My years of instructing at the track tells me otherwise. Rare is the street driver that is even beginning to use the performance of his car, especially braking and cornering.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

Thus why ABS was created because idiots stood on the brakes instead of threshold braked.

Partially. The biggest reason is that the average driver can still steer while braking. Unfortunately, most still fail to do so and plow into the rear of the car in front of them rather than turning. ABS actually stops slower in some circumstances such as a dirt road and snow, but we can still steer.

Tires and brake pads will be the most cost effective way to get these cars to stop quicker.

Absolutely. Tires and suspension make the biggest difference as to how a car stops. We can do little about the suspension geometry - although it can be tweaked - we can however put on excellent tires.

Pads are a tough call. For the street we need excellent cold performance, not too much initial bite (sudden lockup increases stopping distance), easy modulation, etc. Race pads are exactly what you do not want.

If you can readily invoke full ABS from a high speed stop, bigger brakes and more aggressive pads are not going to stop the car faster. Better tires will. Bigger brakes and more aggressive pads will help you do more of such braking back to back.

So, how often does everyone change their oil?

[_BMWnEwBiE_]

Originally Posted by Elk

So, how often does everyone change their oil?

what does this have to do with the brake topic are you talking about brake fluid?

So Nobody has the stats on M brakes than about their stopping distance?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by _BMWnEwBiE_

what does this have to do with the brake topic are you talking about brake fluid?

It was a joke.

This series of posts as to brake preferences has taken on the same texture as oil change discussions. I apologize for my apparent obtuseness.

Stop worrying about stats; you don't drive third-party measurements. Buy the brakes if you think they look good and the appearance is worth the money to you. You don't need them for performance.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by gnosis8

I'm in almost the same driving situation as you: just for everyday driving, commuting, and I don't track. Ever had some sweet looking cross-drilled rotors before? Really nice wheels? Really cool LED lights? In my experience, it's all a waste of money because the cool factor fades away just after a few months.

The one time I went for big brake upgrade (so I can stop harder at those last-second red lights LOL), I spent over $1000 on larger cross-drilled rotors, bigger calipers, better pads. Guess what it got me? Lots of attention... in a bad way!!! CONSTANT and LOUD embarrassing squeaky brakes. Waste of money, and didn't have the money to go back to stock brakes.

Same goes with buying nice wheels. They just made me constantly stress about keeping them clean, rash-free, and dent-free. More trouble than it's worth.

Same goes with sports suspension. The lower stance made my ride look so sweet, and I was loving it for a few months. But then I became more and more aware of the unforgiving harsh ride I had to endure on the shitty roads of my commute.

I have tried several performance upgrades, each just once or twice, and it seems like every time, I just wished I had just saved my money instead. I'd rather have spent the money on a nicer car.*

*The only exception is a chip. Ohhh definitely worth every penny.

I had a set of Brembo cross drilled and slotted rotors on a former car.
They did look REALLY cool. However, performance wise, for daily driving, they were not as good. I also installed friction carbon pads when I did the rotors. They needed more heat to feel the extra bite over stock.
So, for daily driving they were not as good as they looked.
Also, drilled rotors introduce a sound/noise that some don't expect.
The holes provide extra cooling and lower the overall weight, but they also allow air to move through them. On braking the air rushing past the holes makes a unique sound/noise that I didn't care for.

The benefit to drilled rotors are mainly seen for track use where the holes and slots provide escape for gases that come off the pad. Also, the holes allow the rotor to cool off faster and that is beneficial for track use as they are less prone to brake fade.
In daily use I don't think the BBK will give better braking. If there are better pads that may help a bit, but most braking is from the tires.
I'd say better tires before a BBK for daily driving. If you're tracking then both better tires and BBK.

Cosmetically and cool factor go to the BBK with drilled rotors for sure.
But function trumps cool factor for me, and I don't track, not yet.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The Edmunds test was on those horrible P7's, right?

No, the car was on those even more horrible Goodyear EfficientGrips.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by _BMWnEwBiE_

this information is from Edmunds

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...and-video.html
"Braking is disappointing, too. The 2012 BMW 328i stops from 60 mph in 115 feet, and shows fade by the fourth stop. The A4 stopped in 103 feet, and the last 335i we tested managed 109 feet as did the G25."

It is what it is i think every feet is very important when it comes to emergency. Before in different occasions i end up stopping few inches before i rear ended someone.

People do not realize but your tires and your brakes are one of the most important factors to avoid an accident. Of course besides Human mistakes.

Tires, tires, tires. Much bigger difference for braking than the size of M rotors vs stock, imo, until we see some actual testing using same tires with only the M rotors and calipers being different.
Do the Msport brakes come with different pads?

To compare the 328i to the 335i we need to know the difference in the tires used on each car.
The A4 uses 245 all around. 328i uses 225 all around, as does the 335i, unless you get the 19's which use 225 up front and 255 rear.
Still, what are the tire differences, meaning what type of tire on each car?

[Raspartan]

Honestly I like the P7s, they really do the job for me. Now mind you I'm no speed demon, road warrior or what have you. And I'm trying to stick to the break-in period limits.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Do the Msport brakes come with different pads?

Should do, the calipers are different.

[danarcher]

Are the M Performance Brakes compatible with the Modern Line Wheels? Or do I have to get the M Performance (or 20") rims as well?

[clarence]

Ok, just had a look at tests done by a number of European publications, the stock brakes seems to be competitive with others such as C-class & Audi A4/5.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by clarence

Ok, just had a look at tests done by a number of European publications, the stock brakes seems to be competitive with others such as C-class & Audi A4/5.

Don't forget that the US 328i gets smaller rotors than ROW cars.

[elev8]

My opinion is that for daily driving upgraded brakes are over-rated.

My DD is an EVO with Brembos and I can honestly say I believe they provide no advantage for commuting over, say, the stock brakes on a Passat. Tires are going to be as or more important.

As has been highlighted above by others, I believe, the upgraded brakes are going to provide benefits like fade resistance which unless you treat your commute like Time Attack are, IMO, not going to be observable.

That said, the pricing on the package seems quite reasonable. As some have said, go look up an after-market Brembo or Stoptech kit - this is surprisingly cheaper.