[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by mikeith

in MOST situations with a person being attached its one on one. so targetS goes out the window there. putting 4 rounds in a target with a 1911 gives you just as few of targets as putting 7-8 w/ an equal full size 9mm anyway so that argument is null. i'm not knocking .45's in any way and i'm sorry if you took my comment as that. my dream handgun is a wilson tactical supergrade pro. i was referring to the kind of people who think you can stop a doped up meth head dead in his tracks with a single shot from a .45

and i would never say "how many rounds is needed" per target/ per caliber. every situation is different. you fire until the attacker stops whether it be 1,2,10 whatever. there's no magical number. i was just using an example of how long it would take to reset sights in a high stress (or hell even relaxed) situation. if you are battling a timer... i promise you'll shoot better with 9mm than you will with .45. thats just common sense.... reverse the situation i could give you a .44 and a .22 i would be shocked at all if you had the same grouping because you aren't rushed.

all that being said.... nice fucking guns man

I'm one of those kind of people. I say I can, and I invite you to argue with me as to why I or any other competent shooter can't...

[mikeith]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I'm one of those kind of people. I say I can, and I invite you to argue with me as to why I or any other competent shooter can't...

let me rephrase that then.... a .45 shot to center mass.... not the face.

ask anyone who's actually been in the line of duty and had to DO IT. there are multiple cases of people who have taken single 12 gauge and .556 shots to center mass and not just "dropped" and both of those do a hell of alot more than a .45

hell have you ever been hunting.... shoot a 200lb deer in the heart with a 7mm mag which is a HIGH power caliber and it STILL runs a good ways before dropping usually. a deer is no more badass or amune to a gunshot than a person. only SURE way to put someone down in one hit is to sever the spinal cord and in a high stress situation thats a hell of a lot harder than you think.

there's a HUUUGE difference in a competent shooter and a "trained" shooter... and theres and even bigger difference in a trained shooter and one that has been trained in intense high stress situations. i'm not here to argue... i've been an avid shooter my WHOLE life and been able to out shoot a LOT of people but my eyes were opened a few years ago when i got to experience the difference in "target shooting" and a HIGH stress simulation and it's quite humbling. and that was only a simulation. i plan on doing more of them on larger scales like the training magpul offers but it isnt cheap.

[immiketoo]

I am VERY familiar with high stress combat shooting, and I have been involved in situations throughout my career that have proven both your point AND mine. You are correct that a single center mass shot is not likely to stop someone immediately, although it has on occasion. Alternatively, a shot to the eye/brain is very effective in stopping an assailant. The question comes down to training and experience while shooting with induced stress. Joe average shooter is not likely to have enough of either, but a competent marksman with a cool head in a stress environment can prevail with almost any caliber weapon.

The only reason I mentioned your post is that on the surface the comment you made was fallacious in the limited context in which you mad it. I am not trying to argue either, only clarify that a single, well placed shot can stop an attacker. And that the larger the caliber, the more effective that single shot will be.

Also, what was your stress course? I'm curious to know how much your shooting skills deteriorated during the course and what you learned form the training.

[mikeith]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I am VERY familiar with high stress combat shooting, and I have been involved in situations throughout my career that have proven both your point AND mine. You are correct that a single center mass shot is not likely to stop someone immediately, although it has on occasion. Alternatively, a shot to the eye/brain is very effective in stopping an assailant. The question comes down to training and experience while shooting with induced stress. Joe average shooter is not likely to have enough of either, but a competent marksman with a cool head in a stress environment can prevail with almost any caliber weapon.

The only reason I mentioned your post is that on the surface the comment you made was fallacious in the limited context in which you mad it. I am not trying to argue either, only clarify that a single, well placed shot can stop an attacker. And that the larger the caliber, the more effective that single shot will be.

Also, what was your stress course? I'm curious to know how much your shooting skills deteriorated during the course and what you learned form the training.

not so much a course as a timed excercise that a friend of mine set up for me who who trains MP's on propper breaching techniques. the main thing i learned was active shooting on the move and at pop-up "to-hit"/"not-to hit" targets and whatnot can take a toll on how proficient you acrually are when put to the test. all the while he's behind me randomly firing blanks from some little snub nose rovoler that looked like it didnt have barrel (he didnt even tell me the first time he did it so it spooked the crap out of me and got my heart racing)

[The Ghost of Tom Joad]

2 mike's argue. one is a SWAT officer and one has a friend that trains people. hmm...

[mikeith]

unfortunately we dont have any good non leo training available locally. when you do find someone locally that "teaches" anything and find out more about them they dont have any background or professional training themselves to pass on so its hard to want to spend money on things i've worked on my own time.

[mikeith]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Tom Joad

2 mike's argue. one is a SWAT officer and one has a friend that trains people. hmm...

not really an argument... he just read into my comment other than as it was intended to lack of given information(which i no doubt take blame for) as i left out a valid part of what i was venting about which was center mass shot placement.

and i completely agree with his comment about comparing shot for shot a larger caliber will do more damage than a smaller one... that was something i never argued.

just like he said, he has valid points and i have valid points more of a mature debate than an arguement imo.

[ToothDoc]

Just picked up a MINT model 36. 38 special 5 shot S&W FYI. Shot until my trigger finger developed a blister. Also just got a little Ruger .380 with the laser. It's almost identical to the Keltac .380. Breaking it in, I noticed that it stovepipes cuz it's sooo frigging light. I think the small revolver is a better backup/conceal IMO. I think i'm going to pick up the Ruger LC9 next - small single stack 9 mm. Just sucks that there aren't too many places to shoot.

[monkey_wrench]

My other Springfield TRP Operator and my Ti-Rant 45

[ejheverest]

Only gun I own is my compact Glock 40 caliber. I have been looking into buying one more handgun, mainly for concealed use-should I pick up a springfield XD40 subcompact or try out a few revolvers? Price range is up to 600$.
Any recommendations on revolvers or handguns is appreciated.(prefer safety's only on the trip or grip safety like on the xd's)

[miiipilot]

Heya guys,

I was looking to get another weapon. Target/Indoor range use.

I wanted to get your opinion/feedback on a few guns:

Walther P99AS 9mm
FNH FNX-9

I chose 9mm b/c it's cheaper and easier to shoot.

I love the FNH Five seveN too, but ammo is fairly expensive and only Hornaday or FNH makes it. Only 2or3 guns use that ammo (57, PS90 and the AR57 (PS90 mag) conversion). So that ammo could get more expensive and rare.

I live in Cleveland, OH and there aren't any ranges close to me have either of those guns to rent.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[slo_guy]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

Heya guys,

I was looking to get another weapon. Target/Indoor range use.

I wanted to get your opinion/feedback on a few guns:

Walther P99AS 9mm
FNH FNX-9

I chose 9mm b/c it's cheaper and easier to shoot.

I love the FNH Five seveN too, but ammo is fairly expensive and only Hornaday or FNH makes it. Only 2or3 guns use that ammo (57, PS90 and the AR57 (PS90 mag) conversion). So that ammo could get more expensive and rare.

I live in Cleveland, OH and there aren't any ranges close to me have either of those guns to rent.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I know nothing about the FNH but I do hear good things about them.

As far as Walther's go... I haven't like them since the P-88 and the PPKS


Does anyone have opinions about the XDM 5.25 Competition? For USPSA/IPSCA type stuff... The reviews I've read are good, but I'd like to know what you guys think about it.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

Heya guys,

I was looking to get another weapon. Target/Indoor range use.

I wanted to get your opinion/feedback on a few guns:

Walther P99AS 9mm
FNH FNX-9

I chose 9mm b/c it's cheaper and easier to shoot.

I love the FNH Five seveN too, but ammo is fairly expensive and only Hornaday or FNH makes it. Only 2or3 guns use that ammo (57, PS90 and the AR57 (PS90 mag) conversion). So that ammo could get more expensive and rare.

I live in Cleveland, OH and there aren't any ranges close to me have either of those guns to rent.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Other than the Five seveN, my opinion is that FN's pistols are crap. They function fine but they are ungainly both in feel and aesthetics. FN makes some solid rifles and machine guns but pistol craft is not their thing. If you want a polymer gun in 9mm, buy An HK P30. It's a phenominal gun all the way around. I've never shot a polymer I've liked more, and I've shot them all.

I agree with slo_guy about walthers as well. Functional, but not exciting. At the end of the day, go with what you love, but I always recommend that people pony up to the better gun if they can afford it. You will be happier longer, and you won't have to try and dump a POS that no one else wants later.

Originally Posted by slo_guy

I know nothing about the FNH but I do hear good things about them.

As far as Walther's go... I haven't like them since the P-88 and the PPKS


Does anyone have opinions about the XDM 5.25 Competition? For USPSA/IPSCA type stuff... The reviews I've read are good, but I'd like to know what you guys think about it.

Buy this gun. It's awesome. I put about 500 rounds through one and I bought one on the spot. At 25 feet I was easily shooting same hole groups. That's good performance for an out of the box gun.

[Templar]

Not an expert by any means, just getting into my own shooting. Being in the Army, I fired rifles most of my time. Just recently was issues my beretta 9mm, and like shooting handguns. I have a few rifles, mostly for hunting. My favorite is my Winchester model 70 super shadow in 7mm WSM.

At a gun show a month or so ago I bought a new Glock 19 Gen 4. I really like the compact design and the subtle changes from the last glock 19 model (my friend has one). I think it's a good starting point for me and would recommend it to beginners like me as well!

Will edit with some nice pics when I get home!

[slo_guy]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

Buy this gun. It's awesome. I put about 500 rounds through one and I bought one on the spot. At 25 feet I was easily shooting same hole groups. That's good performance for an out of the box gun.

I heard all you need is a heavier guide rod, better grips, and a trigger job and you're good to go. Ok... sounds good. I think it will be the new purchase.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by slo_guy

I heard all you need is a heavier guide rod, better grips, and a trigger job and you're good to go. Ok... sounds good. I think it will be the new purchase.

You can get all of that done at Springfield's custom shop. Go on their website and you can see what they do and the pricing for it. It's a sweet piece.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom.php

[slo_guy]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

You can get all of that done at Springfield's custom shop. Go on their website and you can see what they do and the pricing for it. It's a sweet piece.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom.php

Yep... already looked.

I've got other things that I want on it like a magwell, maybe different, more lower profile sites, and an extended mag release.

[ybbiz34]

One of my recent acquisitions:

[gpchamp]

Originally Posted by Draven

Ruger SR9C. Love this thing. 3k rounds through it at least, and besides some minor jams during breakin, the thing shoots great.

I just got one too. Mine has the stainless slide. Have only shot around 200 rounds thru it. So far, no problems at all.

[E90SoFlo]

I really like the P2022 Sig and the P30 HK.

Give me your opinions on both.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

I really like the P2022 Sig and the P30 HK.

Give me your opinions on both.

What caliber are you looking for? What is going to be the purpose of the gun?

Many have been saying that Sig's quality control has plummeted in recent years, now that the guns are being manufactured in New Hampshire. Others feel like Sig has lost its roots because it is now producing a bunch of fruity, exotic, novelty-type pistols. Furthermore, I think one of Sig's own said that they wanted to be known as a rifle company instead of a handgun company. So take that for what it's worth.

On the other hand, HKs are still . . . HKs. P30s are universally praised for their great ergos the availability of different trigger options.

Note: I own both a Sig (P229 in .40; I've loved it) and an HK (see a couple posts above )

[nutzkicker617]

Springfield Armory 1911 & Glock 17 9mm with TLR-2


Sig P229R 9mm with TLR-2 & Beretta 92FS 9mm