[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by clarence

I don't understand? Wht I said is confirmed by ur info.

E90Fleet missed that you were comparing M Sport to M Performance, not the standard Sport/Luxury/Modern/No Line brakes, your point was correct, the only difference for non US cars between M Sport and M Performance is the slotted and drilled rotors.

[nexusonemeover]

Just ordered. Being installed Monday.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by clarence

I don't understand? Wht I said is confirmed by ur info.

Sorry, read to fast, thought you meant M Sport Against standard

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by nexusonemeover

Just ordered. Being installed Monday.

Is a BMW dealer installing it ?
The car needs to be coded for the new larger brakes

[clarence]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Sorry, read to fast, thought you meant M Sport Against standard

No worries.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

The US market OEM pads are different from other markets. The US pad is not as aggressive as the other markets but make less noise and leave a lot less brake dust. US consumers don't like noisy brakes or dusty wheels, thus the difference in compounds. Most US consumers equate noisy brakes with time to service the brakes. This was a marketing decision done a long time ago.

Side note: The valet at work and co-workers think I need new brakes because they hear the squeal from low temp slow braking in the office garage.

Now for the performance brake kit, my guess is that OEM there will be one pad choice as consumers of big brake kits will know that there will be more dust and noise coming from the brakes and there is usually a note on the installation instructions that nobody reads.

My 135i has serious levels of brake dust, doesn't bother me though, it's easy enough to clean.
I also get squeaks at times, and have read many BMW owners complain that it's "embarrassing". I don't get that.
I would rather the brakes work better than to get rid of noise and dust.
There are pads that make less noise and have nearly no dust, but often they require more heat to work their best.

I understand what you're saying, but I really hope that BMW didn't go too far to appease the non performance BMW owner.
From what I can see, some tests with lack luster braking distance are more about tires than anything else. I think some test models may have even had "low rolling resistance" tires, and those types are about mileage and longevity, not about best performance.
After I get my 3, a new set of non RFT's will go on in late October, early November, and stay on there for 3 years.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

More aggressive pads AND (as you know) larger rotors. No matter what some people say... larger rotors will make a difference.

They will be only to a certain point.
Plus, what is the weight of the larger setup?
If they weight more, then unsprung weight goes up, and that negatively affects a cars performance from acceleration, to handling, to braking, to MPG.

Larger rotors have a larger potential swept area if the pads are made to take advantage, which I have no reason to think they won't. But, I'd like to see the OEM brake spec on swept area vs the Msport brakes. And, it would interesting to see the swept area spec between US/N.America and the Euro market.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by RPM90

They will be only to a certain point.
Plus, what is the weight of the larger setup?

The comment was in reply to Clarence with regards to Euro spec 328i vs US being that the pad choice and rotor size (312mm vs 330mm) were contributing factors. I'm well aware that a 22 or 50 inch or whatever size rotor that is larger than the US market rotor doesn't always equate to better braking.

In terms of US vs Euro spec pads... This isn't a phenomenon of the F30 or just BMW. I believe every automaker has a different pad specs for US vs Europe. The same can be said with suspension tuning with some vehicles (bushings, shocks, spring selection).

I remember going back and forth with a product manager for the Fiat 500 several years ago when they brought a modified early Euro-spec to test in the US market and I was saying the suspension was too soft and he said they thought US owners wanted it (as his translator ended up saying) "cushy."

[nexusonemeover]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Is a BMW dealer installing it ?
The car needs to be coded for the new larger brakes

Yes. Dealer install.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by nexusonemeover

Yes. Dealer install.

How many hours of labor are they estimating for install? Or did you work out a parts and labor package pricing?

[clarence]

Originally Posted by RPM90

They will be only to a certain point.
Plus, what is the weight of the larger setup?
If they weight more, then unsprung weight goes up, and that negatively affects a cars performance from acceleration, to handling, to braking, to MPG.

That's wht I worry abt cos the standard setup has 330mm discs whereas the M-sport has 370mm, not to mention bigger calipers.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by RPM90

They will be only to a certain point.
Plus, what is the weight of the larger setup?
If they weight more, then unsprung weight goes up, and that negatively affects a cars performance from acceleration, to handling, to braking, to MPG.

Originally Posted by clarence

That's wht I worry abt cos the standard setup has 330mm discs whereas the M-sport has 370mm, not to mention bigger calipers.

Where's Elk when you need him?!

Negatively affecting acceleration, handling, braking, MPG.

YES to all (with the exception of braking). It's a very slight trade off. In life there is no everything gets better without a trade off.

MPG, acceleration... most people would lose more MPG and acceleration from having the weight of all the personal items kept in a car than these brakes. Are you willing to give up a .1 second or .1mpg or km/L for better braking?

In terms of handling of added weight of the heavier rotors. Having driven carbon rotors vs. steel rotors back to back on identical cars, the biggest thing you will notice is that the steering feels lighter. Heck, since most people complain about the light steering in the F30... the added weight of the larger rotors would probably be welcomed. Yes, I understand the physics behind putting more unsprung weight and the impact in lateral Gs... but seriously how many people here are approaching max Gs cornering.

In terms of braking, I'm willing to bet that these work better than the 328i setup. The caliper design, the pad, and the larger surface area all lead me to believe that these will be a vast improvement over the 328i. But this is where testing can prove you wrong. I'm waiting to see what these do in real world application. Everything right now (by everyone here) is speculation.

Now for your question about weight... the rotors are going to be much heavier. 25% thicker rotors in addition to the diameter. Considering they're probably made of the same steel... you have your answer. You could argue that they're cross drilled, but the holes would maybe negate the larger size rotors. Thus it's still about 25% larger. The caliper will probably be close to equal weight or negligible dues to the fact that the performance calipers are made of a different material.

All this is really academic. Just go and drive the car.

[Blake P]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

Now for your question about weight... the rotors are going to be much heavier. 25% thicker rotors in addition to the diameter. Considering they're probably made of the same steel... you have your answer. You could argue that they're cross drilled, but the holes would maybe negate the larger size rotors. Thus it's still about 25% larger. The caliper will probably be close to equal weight or negligible dues to the fact that the performance calipers are made of a different material.

FWIW, larger Brembo GT kits are typically lighter than the smaller OEM brake components they replace. Again, it's all speculation until we see the real figures.

[sleedawg]

Originally Posted by Blake P

FWIW, larger Brembo GT kits are typically lighter than the smaller OEM brake components they replace. Again, it's all speculation until we see the real figures.

Yupp. 2-piece rotors will do that for you.

Until we see what rotor they ship with the kit, it' all speculation. But I will admit, I was wrong. I took a second look at some of the photos again and the specs, and the rotors they're using are the aluminum hat with iron rotors similar to the Z4 3.5is. So, if they come with those rotors they will be around 3 lbs lighter. Can't wait to see and test a production kit in person.

[nexusonemeover]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

How many hours of labor are they estimating for install? Or did you work out a parts and labor package pricing?

Pricing for installation is listed on bmwusa website its a standard charge something like five hundred

[nexusonemeover]

Will have post installation photo up shortly.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by RPM90

My 135i has serious levels of brake dust, doesn't bother me though, it's easy enough to clean.
I also get squeaks at times, and have read many BMW owners complain that it's "embarrassing". I don't get that.
I would rather the brakes work better than to get rid of noise and dust.

Here as well. No problems with the brakes, just somtimes some squeaks.
Never had that on my BMWs with stock/oem brakes.