[taibanl]

I did some research and satellite radio is currently working with 32-48kbps of bandwidth per channel. It simply cannot sound good with this limitation. The poster above who noted that it has gotten worse after the merger is correct, more channels over same bandwidth is less bandwidth per channel.

If it sounds good (or different) in other cars it can also be attributed to EQ tricks. You can "hide" a lot of compression artifacts by killing high frequencies...but that also affects your dynamic range.

Internet streaming, despite its own limfacs is far superior.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by taibanl

I did some research and satellite radio is currently working with 32-48kbps of bandwidth per channel. It simply cannot sound good with this limitation. The poster above who noted that it has gotten worse after the merger is correct, more channels over same bandwidth is less bandwidth per channel.

If it sounds good (or different) in other cars it can also be attributed to EQ tricks. You can "hide" a lot of compression artifacts by killing high frequencies...but that also affects your dynamic range.

Internet streaming, despite its own limfacs is far superior.

Agreed. It sounds like shite. But what are you going to do? I might just stick to weather/traffic and classical.

[DarkTrigger]

Sirius sounds like garbage, always did, always will. It's better than nothing though when you're driving through death valley.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by snowghost

Agreed. It sounds like shite. But what are you going to do? I might just stick to weather/traffic and classical.

For a start: stream through phone instead of from the satellite.

[671samohtm]

I have XM radio in my Honda Accord and the music sounds great. Need to really concentrate to hear the effects of compression. My new BMW with the sirrius tuner sounds like crap. I would never pay for what amounts to Internet streaming. The BMW team that made the deal with SirriusXM to install the Sirrius tuner rather than the XM tuner obviously didn't make the decision based on engineering. Sirrius uses an inferior compression standard to XM.

So those of you who write about how bad Satellite radio is, perhaps you are correct, but Sirrius is even worse.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by 671samohtm

I have XM radio in my Honda Accord and the music sounds great. Need to really concentrate to hear the effects of compression. My new BMW with the sirrius tuner sounds like crap. I would never pay for what amounts to Internet streaming. The BMW team that made the deal with SirriusXM to install the Sirrius tuner rather than the XM tuner obviously didn't make the decision based on engineering. Sirrius uses an inferior compression standard to XM.

So those of you who write about how bad Satellite radio is, perhaps you are correct, but Sirrius is even worse.

It is quite possible that the distinction is due to your Honda OEM system having less treble, thus masking the worst compression effects, as opposed to a Sirius/XM distinction. Not certain, but possible.

[c.cash]

Interesting theories about Sirrius vs straight XM.

I went back through a bunch of stations and again, they sound awful, HOWEVER, The Howard Stern station sounds perfectly acceptable. Very strange. Does he get more bandwidth or something?

[671samohtm]

Originally Posted by taibanl

It is quite possible that the distinction is due to your Honda OEM system having less treble, thus masking the worst compression effects, as opposed to a Sirius/XM distinction. Not certain, but possible.

Point taken. Found my dusty CD box and used John Coltrane's variation of "Stardust" as a test.

Using "Stardust"
CD: Honda Vs BMW sound the same

MP3 192kBs: BWM CD vs BMW USB MP3 can't distinguish the difference

Tune to "Real Jazz": BMW Sirrius Tuner vs Honda XM Tuner. BMW Loses.

So far this is all qualitative. But the smoking gun is to actually compare the BMW Sirrius Tuner and Honda XM Tuner through signal analysis using a microphone and a signal analyzer. A look at the FFT of the same song/channel will tell the whole story.

[671samohtm]

Originally Posted by c.cash

Interesting theories about Sirrius vs straight XM.

I went back through a bunch of stations and again, they sound awful, HOWEVER, The Howard Stern station sounds perfectly acceptable. Very strange. Does he get more bandwidth or something?

I tuned to Howard Stern this morning on the BMW and you are correct, his channel has more bandwidth than any of the other talk/non-music channels. But it doesn't sound any better than the music channels on Sirrius.

[taibanl]

Eh. I think youve proven your case.

Just a freakig shame what they have done with SAT radio in general. Too many crap channels and no bandwith left. It USED to sound good years ago. (Used to be >128kbps/channel, and sirius used to be hands down better than XM)---all before the merger

[Orient330iNYC]

sirius and XM use different codecs.
sirius uses PAC
XM uses AAC+SBR

PAC is the "inferior" of the two codecs....same company, but the XM flavor of it will sound better as its codec doesnt suffer as much at the bitrates they are using to cram all those channels in.
sirius sounded much better about 8 years ago-- less channels, higher bitrates per channel. both services have lowered bitrates to carry more content, with sirius suffering the worst of the degradation due to PAC.

[RPM90]

Sat radio suffers the same compression issues that cable TV suffers from.
Instead of maximizing bandwidth for less channels and better quality, they go for more channels, which in turn limits quality for both services.

However, cable TV has improved overall quality over the past few years, but it sounds like sat radio has only added more and more channels while quality downgrades.

I've tweaked my EQ to get an acceptable sound from my HK, but it still can't even match HD FM.
To actually appreciate spending the extra cash on the HK upgrade you have to listen to CD's. With a CD the HK sounds pretty good for an OEM system.
IMO, the only thing letting the HK down are the titanium tweeters they use.
This type of tweeter has extended high end capability, but the over all tone can sound brittle and harsh, which fatigues hearing after extended listening.
Meter testing may show good high end extension from these tweets but meters can't tell the whole story as tonal quality is subjective.

I might renew my Sirius subscription, but only if I get a discount.
At the current price I don't see/hear that the quality is there, and I have no use for the sheer quantity of channels they offer. I can't even begin to put a dent in how many channels there are.
I'd be really happy to be able to choose around 15 to 20 channels given at full bandwidth quality. But neither sat. nor cable can do that.