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      10-11-2013, 09:39 PM   #1
f30coyote
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All season vs. winter?

I have the 19" summers and need a winter setup. I would normally change to winters from Dec to April but was thinking all seasons might be better since we only have about 10 snowy days per year. I think I would get better tread wear and ride quality. Thoughts?
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      10-11-2013, 10:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30coyote
I have the 19" summers and need a winter setup. I would normally change to winters from Dec to April but was thinking all seasons might be better since we only have about 10 snowy days per year. I think I would get better tread wear and ride quality. Thoughts?
I ordered the 19s as well and plan on putting on all seasons. I've done the same with all of my AWD cars although never with low profile ones like these. Most likely the Michelin pilot A/S 3.
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      10-12-2013, 01:26 AM   #3
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I will not recommend if you plan to use these throughout the year. All season tires have softer rubber will wear down quickly when driving on asphalt. You will also have less grip on the asphalt than normal summer tires have. Get one set for each season :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong. But this was what my dealer told me a few years back.
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      10-12-2013, 05:58 AM   #4
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I was thinking that I'd use the summers from May to November and the all seasons December to April.
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      10-12-2013, 07:15 AM   #5
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I would get proper winter tires. If you're going to be swapping out your summer tires/wheels come winter anyway, I can't understand why you wouldn't go with winter tires
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      10-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #6
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The only requirement for tire manufacturers to put "M+S" on the tire (the marking for all-season) is that the tread have 25% open space. That's not very demanding. While all-seasons also have tread that stays "soft enough" for cold weather, the real name that should be used is "no-season", because they're not very good in any season.

IMO, you should get some performance snow tires like Michelin Pilot Alpine 3 or Blizzak LM26 (Pirelli, Dunlop and Continental and others also make performance snows.) Although not performing as well as summers, they are close to all-seasons, and the tread wear is sufficient for 3-4 years.

There are people that use all-seasons on their awd/'xi vehicles and do ok. But although you might get through some minor snow events, you will not be going very far in any icy conditions with all-seasons. And spinning out is gonna happen.
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      10-12-2013, 01:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers
The only requirement for tire manufacturers to put "M+S" on the tire (the marking for all-season) is that the tread have 25% open space. That's not very demanding. While all-seasons also have tread that stays "soft enough" for cold weather, the real name that should be used is "no-season", because they're not very good in any season.

IMO, you should get some performance snow tires like Michelin Pilot Alpine 3 or Blizzak LM26 (Pirelli, Dunlop and Continental and others also make performance snows.) Although not performing as well as summers, they are close to all-seasons, and the tread wear is sufficient for 3-4 years.

There are people that use all-seasons on their awd/'xi vehicles and do ok. But although you might get through some minor snow events, you will not be going very far in any icy conditions with all-seasons. And spinning out is gonna happen.
And summer and winter tires are only 2 season tires, not 4 seasons. The fact is that you can get into a lot of trouble with summers on when temps drop suddenly. In the northeast that is very common. The all seasons can handle almost all situations unlike a summer tire when the temperature drops suddenly. Ice is always dangerous. Remember, even winter tires are only generating .28-.3 g in the snow. You always should drive carefully in bad weather.

Ideally you have 3 sets of tires (summers in the summer, all seasons for fall/early winter/early spring, and winters for the worst period of winter) but that's just crazy. All situations are compromises. I'd rather use high performance all seasons for the many days of the winter when the roads are clear and dry. Overall I see them as less of a compromise than summer/winter tires.
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      10-12-2013, 02:44 PM   #8
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Actually the tire naming is kind of wrong.
Summer tires, they should be renamed to "wet and dry road tires"
Winter tires, they should be renamed to "snow and icy road tires"

So called "Summer tires" have better test results compared to "winter tires" exept on snow/ice. Even on cold road conditions! (Some exeptions, as always)
All Season tires are worse than winter tires on Snow/Ice and worse than summer tires on dry/wet road.
When you live in an area where snow/ice is to be expected go for winter tires!
When you live in an area where it is cold but no risk for snow/ice stay with summer tires!

There is another reason for summer tires being bether even on cold dry/wet roads.
Normally summer tires are of bigger size (i.e. 225/255) than the winter tires used on the same car (i.e. 215/215). This will give the car more rubber surface for braking and traction.
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      10-12-2013, 06:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by oceanview View Post
So called "Summer tires" have better test results compared to , "winter tires" exept on snow/ice. Even on cold road conditions! (Some exeptions, as always)
All Season tires are worse than winter tires on Snow/Ice and worse than summer tires on dry/wet road.
Not in my experience...summer tires have rubber compounds optimized for warm temperatures; I've driven several sets of summer tires from various manufacturers that were horrible on dry, but very cold roads.
As far as "high performance" winter tires, Tire Rack test results as well as my own experience has shown that they perform no better than a good set of all seasons in snow and ice. Real snow tires (S-rated or lower) perform much better comparatively.
In my opinion, summer tires from April/May through November/December, and all-seasons the rest of the year are the way to go.
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      10-13-2013, 08:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Tire Rack test results as well as my own experience has shown that they perform no better than a good set of all seasons in snow and ice.
That's just not right! Sorry.

Just search the Internet for serious test results winter vs. all season and you will see, that on snow / ice the best all season doesn't beat the best winter.
Maybe on wet roads all season are bether than winter tires, but worse than summer tires.
Please compare similar tires i.e. Michelin Winter vs. Michelin All Season.

Here is one test as an example.

On the circle test the FWD with winter tires is even faster than the AWD on All Season tires. but read yourself.
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      10-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by oceanview View Post
the best all season don't beat the best winter.
I agree that the best all-seasons don't beat the best winter tires; that's not what I said.

What I said is that so called "high performance" H- and V-rated) winter tires are not appreciably better than all-season tires on snow/ice. High performance all-seasons are designed with significant compromises in order to accommodate better high speed performance in the absence of snow/ice. Again, real snow tires are much better than either all-seasons or high performance winter tires on snow/ice.

I also said that summer tires, in my experience, have been horrible in the winter - even on dry roads in sub-freezing temperatures. This is due to rubber compounds that are optimized for high temperatures, and that turn them into hockey pucks in freezing weather.
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      10-13-2013, 11:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHCCubs View Post
I would get proper winter tires. If you're going to be swapping out your summer tires/wheels come winter anyway, I can't understand why you wouldn't go with winter tires
+1, at least some performance snow tires.
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      10-13-2013, 04:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
I agree that the best all-seasons don't beat the best winter tires; that's not what I said.

What I said is that so called "high performance" H- and V-rated) winter tires are not appreciably better than all-season tires on snow/ice. High performance all-seasons are designed with significant compromises in order to accommodate better high speed performance in the absence of snow/ice. Again, real snow tires are much better than either all-seasons or high performance winter tires on snow/ice.

I also said that summer tires, in my experience, have been horrible in the winter - even on dry roads in sub-freezing temperatures. This is due to rubber compounds that are optimized for high temperatures, and that turn them into hockey pucks in freezing weather.
I agree that on freezing temp summer tires are not the best choice. But same applies for all season tires! See below...

I completly disagree that H- and V- winter tires are not better on snow/ice than all season tires.
Wide Winter Tires (as H- and V- are) even outperform small winter tires on several tests! Exept traction on snow. But they have shorter braking distance on snow and naturally on wet and dry roads than smaller winter tires. (Again, comparing the same tire but in different sizes)


All-season tires lack several attributes which make them less useful than winter tires. They generally are not made of cold weather rubber compounds, they lack channeling tread patterns and come with less tread sipes than winter tires.
According to existing research, as soon as the temperature drops below 5 degrees Celsius (41 degrees Fahrenheit), a winter tire performs much better than an all-season one. The lower the temperature, the better the winter tire performs. The exact opposite happens with all-season tires.



So it's clear. If it's freezing in your place, go for winter tires. If temp stays above 45 F / 10 C go for summer tires. If you use All Season in either cold or warm, probably fine, but never as good as it could be.
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      10-16-2013, 05:59 PM   #14
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im in the same boat winter is around the corner here in ny and im considering winter tires I really need that peace of mind when the snow starts.
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      10-17-2013, 08:32 PM   #15
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My experience...I've had UHP summers and went with a 17" dedicated winter (best possible for winter conditions)...it was awesome when it snowed and I had to get around. I could drive circles around people, but the feel when it was dry out made the car handle like a truck! I'd rather just get all seasons and drive more careful when it does snow, then have the car handle like it did when it wasn't snowing/wet.

I haven't had a "performance" winter...but maybe that would solve the handling issues I had, but I know I'm never going to go back to a dedicated winter tire unless I'm in a climate with significant snow on the ground.
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