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      01-28-2013, 07:44 PM   #23
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I respectfully disagree with the production location theory. While many people mention that robots do the majority of the assembly of vehicles, you'd be surprised how many parts are still screwed in/attached by human labor.

In addition, I believe cultural work ethics play an important role in quality control. When I worked at BMW, it was a known fact that the Rosslyn plant had more vehicles that needed to go into rework than the German-produced e90s. One element that I was able to notice at dealerships was the plastic rocker panel piece found below the side doors. On the German assembled cars, the pieces were tightly snapped in. The Rosslyn cars had many soft spots. These parts are put in by hand, and it's in these small details where you can tell where cultural work ethics come into play.

The concern with Chinese suppliers is that these companies are well trained to cheat the quality control checks. The corporate model in china is not mature, and oftentimes the people that work in factories are notified in advance of quality checks. While BMW does its best to monitor the quality of their supplies, it would simply be impossible to comb through each individual part that comes in from the supplier. Here is where it is important to rely on regions whose cultural work ethics are higher to ensure quality. Germany and Japan thus come to mind. We can try to be as politically correct as possible, but there are certain realities that just cannot be ignored.

That being said, I had my concerns when bmw switched to Fuyao for the side glass on the f30, and I'm afraid these thigs are confirming my suspicions.
There's no "assembly" or human intervention when pouring glass. Sure they could potentially try to cheat the formula. But it's glass. Silica and soda primarily. There's not a whole lot of opportunity to cheat. Not to mention it's a highly regulated safety component. If one were to fail a regulatory check there would be SERIOUS problems for all involved.

I don't disagree that there's certainly plenty of crap that comes out of China, but moreso in retail products that are not regulated very tightly. It's not advisable to paint with such broad strokes. There's plenty of crap produced elsewhere around the world as well. It's more of function of the party commissioning the product than it is the manufacturer.
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      01-28-2013, 09:08 PM   #24
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I guess we're straying too far from the point. The OP mentioned swirls and webs in the glass, which is a cosmetic issue. I just hope bmw's cost cutting efforts don't compromise the reputation that they've built up.
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      01-29-2013, 12:21 AM   #25
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What irritates me is that my car with less than 500km / 1 month old has a scratched up driver side window. I can feel the scratches when I run my fingers across them. The kicker is that the car has only been driven in very fair weather (no winter conditions, mostly dry weather). Picture of Fuyao glass:

Name:  premature wear.jpg
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The worn-looking leather on all seats and the rust underneath the seat don't add to the confidence in quality. Having said all that, at least there have been no electrical/mechanical defects, and it's a blast to drive.
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      01-30-2013, 02:15 AM   #26
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Does any other f series car have its glass made in china?
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      01-30-2013, 05:34 AM   #27
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So far just the f30. I hope it stays that way. Those pictures show inexcusable lack of quality.
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      01-30-2013, 09:05 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BlauWeiss View Post
What irritates me is that my car with less than 500km / 1 month old has a scratched up driver side window. I can feel the scratches when I run my fingers across them. The kicker is that the car has only been driven in very fair weather (no winter conditions, mostly dry weather). Picture of Fuyao glass:

Attachment 813141

The worn-looking leather on all seats and the rust underneath the seat don't add to the confidence in quality. Having said all that, at least there have been no electrical/mechanical defects, and it's a blast to drive.
That glass is brutal and so is the underside of that chair. If you don't want your seats to look like that then you need to order vinyl......thats what leather does. In BMWs quest to stay at the top have they started cutting corners etc.? Lots of frustration/anger in the forum.
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      01-30-2013, 11:45 AM   #29
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If you don't want your seats to look like that then you need to order vinyl......thats what leather does.
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      01-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #30
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I think they look fine too.
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      01-30-2013, 12:15 PM   #31
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Picture of Fuyao glass:

Attachment 813141
So what exactly did you do to the glass? Glass doesn't just get scratched up like that without someone doing something they shouldn't have. NO glass will hold up to rubbing something abrasive all over it.
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      01-30-2013, 01:10 PM   #32
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So what exactly did you do to the glass? Glass doesn't just get scratched up like that without someone doing something they shouldn't have. NO glass will hold up to rubbing something abrasive all over it.
Looks like it was cleaned with a Brillo pad!
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      01-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #33
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Hi. I took delivery of my f30 335i this weekend and I'm shocked at the quality of the windscreen and glass in general. Lots of swirls and marks. My car finished production on 18/01/2013 at Rosslyn so it's definitely coming straight from the factory like that. It's dangerous to drive this car at night due to the poor visibility. My previous e92 made in Germany had a flawless windscreen for at least 4 years.
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      01-30-2013, 05:06 PM   #34
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Hi. I took delivery of my f30 335i this weekend and I'm shocked at the quality of the windscreen and glass in general. Lots of swirls and marks. My car finished production on 18/01/2013 at Rosslyn so it's definitely coming straight from the factory like that. It's dangerous to drive this car at night due to the poor visibility. My previous e92 made in Germany had a flawless windscreen for at least 4 years.
Yup this is the reason I made this thread. I have the same issue. It's fine during day time driving but as soon as oncoming traffic lights hit the glass at night visibility is horrible. Other than the glass problem the car is outstanding.
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      01-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #35
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Are you guys sure the glass is actually clean? Glass can be polished pretty easily. Return to your dealer and ask that it be polished to remove the marks. It sounds to me like someone wasn't careful when washing it either at the dealer or the VPC.
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      01-31-2013, 04:05 AM   #36
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I've clayed the glass and tried using BMW glass polish with poor results. The problem is definitely the glass and not the wipers. I suspect it needs a machine polish.
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      01-31-2013, 01:06 PM   #37
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I've clayed the glass and tried using BMW glass polish with poor results. The problem is definitely the glass and not the wipers. I suspect it needs a machine polish.
I don't think using a claybar on glass is a very good idea. Glass isn't as hard and abrasion resistant as paint. For one, it's not intended to do anything for scratches. If anything, it'll CREATE them. It's sole purpose is to remove contaminants that are on the surface. It's also a first step prior to polishing for the sole purpose of removing contaminants in an effort to avoid grinding them into the paint as you polish. The damage caused by the clay is polished away. This isn't quite as easy with glass. There's a very high potential for doing more harm than good with clay unless you really know what you're doing.

The BMW glass polish (or any other consumer product) isn't intended to remove scratches. It's really only a cleaner. You can take care of very light scratches and haze with products like Bon Ami and Bar Keeper's Friend which are very mild cleansers. Anything deep enough to catch a fingernail will require more aggressive abrasives such as cerium oxide. But beware, you can quickly do far more harm than good if you're not experienced doing this. Glass isn't nearly as forgiving as paint.
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      01-31-2013, 01:14 PM   #38
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I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
Lol +1
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      01-31-2013, 02:29 PM   #39
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I don't think using a claybar on glass is a very good idea. Glass isn't as hard and abrasion resistant as paint. For one, it's not intended to do anything for scratches. If anything, it'll CREATE them. It's sole purpose is to remove contaminants that are on the surface. It's also a first step prior to polishing for the sole purpose of removing contaminants in an effort to avoid grinding them into the paint as you polish. The damage caused by the clay is polished away. This isn't quite as easy with glass. There's a very high potential for doing more harm than good with clay unless you really know what you're doing.
A claybar is fine on glass with proper lubrication. Detailers use it all the time to remove water spots. I get great results with it all the time. Its very easy and anyone can do it.

Glass is much harder than paint. Hence why paint polish won't correct glass and the need for Cerium Oxide.
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      01-31-2013, 03:52 PM   #40
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So what exactly did you do to the glass? Glass doesn't just get scratched up like that without someone doing something they shouldn't have. NO glass will hold up to rubbing something abrasive all over it.
Yea I wanted to see what happened if I used a Brillo pad on the glass :P

The only thing I've done to the glass since taking delivery at the dealer is lowering the windows (relatively frequently), and that's where the deep vertical scratches are most likely from. I will try to somehow clean the part the glass slides against to ensure there is nothing stuck in there..

If it gets worse, I'll certainly take it back to the dealer..
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      01-31-2013, 05:09 PM   #41
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A claybar is fine on glass with proper lubrication. Detailers use it all the time to remove water spots. I get great results with it all the time. Its very easy and anyone can do it.

Glass is much harder than paint. Hence why paint polish won't correct glass and the need for Cerium Oxide.
This is something many folks fail to understand which is why I warn against it unless you really understand how to do it properly. Water spots are nothing more than a build-up of lime, calcium and other minerals on the surface of the glass. They're not defects or scratches in the glass itself that you're trying to "polish" out.

My point was that people automatically think of glass as being really hard and durable. They don't understand that something as simple as rubbing against glass coated with dirt, sand or anything abrasive can scratch and gouge the glass fairly easily. And it's not a simple matter to "buff it out".
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      01-31-2013, 05:13 PM   #42
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Yea I wanted to see what happened if I used a Brillo pad on the glass :P

The only thing I've done to the glass since taking delivery at the dealer is lowering the windows (relatively frequently), and that's where the deep vertical scratches are most likely from. I will try to somehow clean the part the glass slides against to ensure there is nothing stuck in there..

If it gets worse, I'll certainly take it back to the dealer..
Ironically, Brillo (steel wool) won't necessarily hurt glass so long as there isn't a bunch of dirt and crap on the glass for the steel wool to grab and drag.

Vertical scratching is definitely the result of something lodged in the window felt/weatherstripping. Lower the window all the way and give the felts a good wipe to dislodge whatever is stuck in there. If you get scratches on the inside of the glass, there's probably something in the door that's out of alignment.
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      01-31-2013, 07:05 PM   #43
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This is something many folks fail to understand which is why I warn against it unless you really understand how to do it properly. Water spots are nothing more than a build-up of lime, calcium and other minerals on the surface of the glass. They're not defects or scratches in the glass itself that you're trying to "polish" out.

My point was that people automatically think of glass as being really hard and durable. They don't understand that something as simple as rubbing against glass coated with dirt, sand or anything abrasive can scratch and gouge the glass fairly easily. And it's not a simple matter to "buff it out".
Lube makes everything better
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