[MotoEV]

The Motor Trend review is a weak effort and represents a simple-minded view of the automotive industry

After watching the Motor Trend review and reading through the comments, I reached the following conclusion. The era of the highly focused car is ALMOST over. Most consumers who buy high performance vehicles will not race them on track day or push them to their limits. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche and others know this. This is the direction the automotive market is going and for good reason. Electronics allow for manufacturers to offer 'profiles' to sharpen steering, change throttle mapping, and suspension dampening to provide 90% of the focused car experience while improving emissions, safety, and fuel economy while making the car slightly bigger. When was the last time Cadillac built and sold a mainstream product that had to compete in all global markets and meet consumers wants and tastes?

Those who own an E46 know it is not a great space in the backseats for a second couple on a long 2 day road trip. However, the E46 seemed more focused and tighter 'out-of-the-box'. BMW now offers more variations of products for those who want that 'old school no compromise experience'. You can find it in an M series or through sport options from BMW.

However, this hardcore buyer may only represent 10% of the buying public. BMW knows what they are doing and are not alone in this trend. Porsche has also made the new 911 S more comfortable and a little less sharp but through performance options can build a 911 S to meet 90-95% of what a hardcore owner may want.

Yes, the doors are lighter on all new BMW products (3 series through 7 series) and harder plastics are in lower touch points in the interior however, that is offset by better fuel economy, and a sticker price lower than the costs of inflation and the diminished value of our US currency.

Finally, the 3 series is still built outside the United States and the price reflects foreign manufacture, shipping, health costs, etc. There has been talk of the 3 series being built domestically to reduce costs and add more content (ala VW in Chatanooga TN). I'll pay the premium for German design and manufacture as well as the investments in Efficient Dynamics.

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Do USA spec F30s have softer suspensions than EURO Spec ones, I wonder?
Our F30s feel just perfect and we do like a planted feel in this country.

Originally Posted by adc

To what are you comparing it to?

I'll rephrase: Does a USA F30, say a 328i, have a softer suspension set-up than a UK/EURO F30 328i?

Originally Posted by justinnum1

no

Thanks.

[amdmaxx]

Winding Road also pronouncing ATS 3.6 a winner over BMW.. BMW got some catching up to it!

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...ource=email-55

[tuned2ride]

ATS 3.6 or 2.0 is dead on birth.

Slow initial sales + pricey +crampy in the rear is a recipe for ... failure.

GM should have learned more from the Regal GS, really.

[DerekS]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

Winding Road also pronouncing ATS 3.6 a winner over BMW.. BMW got some catching up to it!

I very much doubt that BMW Ag will take seriously the views of a few American automotive journalists who praise the virtues of the ATS. In the meantime, the sluggish sales of this strange looking car are not likely to offer a significant challenge to BMW in the North American market nor in the European one.

Apart from the stylistic handicap faced by the ATS, there is a huge cultural one presented by GM dealers; they haven't a clue as to what makes a BMW/Mercedes/Audi owner tick.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by DerekS

Apart from the stylistic handicap faced by the ATS, there is a huge cultural one presented by GM dealers; they haven't a clue as to what makes a BMW/Mercedes/Audi owner tick.

I disagree on the styling, as I actually prefer the ATS to the F30, but to be fair, neither does much for me. But the dealer comment is spot on with where the real issue lies. The only customer ticks that they truly understand are the ones with pacemakers.

[Elk]

Have any of you actually driven a Cadillac into a dealership for service? So many of the anti-Cadillac posts appear to be based upon personal bias rather than experience.

I cannot speak to Cadillac dealers, but as a many year Corvette owner I have been treated at least as well at Chevy dealerships than at BMW. Moreover, the dedicated C5 and C6 Corvette technicians know a 'Vette better than the BMW techs know their cars in my experience. They are also obviously pleased to get a chance to work on the car and are extremely mod friendly.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

GM should have learned more from the Regal GS, really.

What does that even mean? If learning from the forgettable Regal means building a completely new, and far superior car, that's exactly what they did. Chassis, engine and transmission are all completely different.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Elk

Have any of you actually driven a Cadillac into a dealership for service? So many of the anti-Cadillac posts appear to be based upon personal bias rather than experience.

I cannot speak to Cadillac dealers, but as a many year Corvette owner I have been treated at least as well at Chevy dealerships than at BMW. Moreover, the dedicated C5 and C6 Corvette technicians know a 'Vette better than the BMW techs know their cars in my experience. They are also obviously pleased to get a chance to work on the car and are extremely mod friendly.

They know how to hot rod your car when you bring it in for service.

[adc]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

What does that even mean? If learning from the forgettable Regal means building a completely new, and far superior car, that's exactly what they did. Chassis, engine and transmission are all completely different.

I think he's talking about the current Regal GS, a sporty and very nice looking sedan based on the European Opel Insignia. A good car, but plagued by an indifferent audience. He's right, Buick and Cadillac have a huge uphill battle against their traditional brand values and customer base with these new sporty cars.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by adc

I think he's talking about the current Regal GS, a sporty and very nice looking sedan based on the European Opel Insignia. A good car, but plagued by an indifferent audience. He's right, Buick and Cadillac have a huge uphill battle against their traditional brand values and customer base with these new sporty cars.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about too. I do like the looks of the current Insignia/Regal, but the ATS is a far better, totally new car.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by buildbright

They know how to hot rod your car when you bring it in for service.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Elk

The mechanics beat on your car. Joyride.

[Elk]

Nonsense.

[pkim1079]

The vette is pretty much top of the line. Try taking in some any ole chevy - i cant recall any of there other models right now without thinking about it.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

The vette is pretty much top of the line.

Yes, for Chevy.

Cadillac has its own dedicated dealerships servicing these cars of higher than average price. I would expect they treat their customers pretty well.

Given my experiences with "base" Chevy dealerships with the 'Vette has been as good as BMW I anticipate Cadillac dealers treat their customers well. A number of my Corvette owning friends own a CTS-V as their daily driver/winter car. None have complained of bad dealer service.

As with bad BMW dealer experiences (there are many posted on this board) I am certain their are bad Cadillac dealers however.

[mso4]

I remember when the CTS-V beat the M5, but that M5 was dated. Never thought I see a brand new BMW being beat by a Cadillac on driving dynamics. Wait, actually the 535 M Sport got spank by the new Lexus GS 350 F Sport too! I had always love BMW for their sharp handling and road feel. I guess it's time for BMW take down the slogan the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'. Very sad in deed.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by mso4

I remember when the CTS-V beat the M5, but that M5 was dated. Never thought I see a brand new BMW being beat by a Cadillac on driving dynamics. Wait, actually the 535 M Sport got spank by the new Lexus GS 350 F Sport too! I had always love BMW for their sharp handling and road feel. I guess it's time for BMW take down the slogan the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'. Very sad in deed.

Everyone else is catching up or has caught up. This is actually quite good because the closer competition is, the better everyone will get. Good for all.

The other issue is BMW has tended to go just a little softer as of late and some others are going less soft to compete with BMW. Lexus, for example, are building their next gen IS350 after the E9X BMW because their engineers say BMW softened the current generation. Now, that is somewhat of a marketing scheme IMO and you can option the car with sportier suspensions, etc but it is an ongoing trend... along with smaller displacement engines, more luxury, etc. Not bad... just different. Personally, I like the direction BMW is going. Softer, more luxurious cars that can be optioned with sport suspensions, etc for those who desire that. Don't forget, a LARGE portion of the market want soft and quiet. Only a small, unrepresentative group of enthusiasts (like many here) and car magazine editors want performance cars to be more raw and visceral. BMW is simply building cars that the vast majority of its buyers want.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by gthal

. . . BMW has tended to go just a little softer as of late . . .

I just brought my sportline F30 in for service (routine) and have a new X5 as a loaner. Interestingly, the X5 has much firmer steering feel than the F30.

[MNBart]

So... anyone pick up the newest issue of Motor Trend? They compared the Cadillac, Merc, and 335 and ranked the 335 last out of the three based on interior quality even though it had the best performance metrics.

I didn't shop the other 2 cars so I can't really comment but come on...

[batislav]

Originally Posted by MNBart

So... anyone pick up the newest issue of Motor Trend? They compared the Cadillac, Merc, and 335 and ranked the 335 last out of the three based on interior quality even though it had the best performance metrics.

I didn't shop the other 2 cars so I can't really comment but come on...

Tons of reviews on this subject are contradictory. Seems like personal preference is the only reliable predictor. Not necessarily a bad thing; most consumers should be able to pick out a car in the segment and feel confident it holds up well to the competition.

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by batislav

Tons of reviews on this subject are contradictory. Seems like personal preference is the only reliable predictor. Not necessarily a bad thing; most consumers should be able to pick out a car in the segment and feel confident it holds up well to the competition.

It seems a lot of the reviews are becoming personal preference now. The 335i beat out the ats and c350 in performance numbers both in the figure 8 and drag. However, it got dead last because of creeks and rattles and it's 6k price premium in the latest motortrend article. Although, I think they breezed over the practicality part where the 335i trunk is 17cuft while the caddy is 10cuft and had the only back seat that comfortably sat a 6' person.

You must understand though that the article started with, "I think the problem here is that we've got three second-place cars." Only way to break the tie are with minor things. The caddy shamelessly copied the 3 series anyways, and the 3 series hasn't really changed that much in driving dynamics regardless of what people say.