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      12-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #23
godfather87
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i know this is off topic, but my sis bought a 2012 pilot fully loaded..there were some paint defects on the car, and after countless number of trys from the dealer to get rid of the paint defects honda finally stepped in and gave my sis a brand new pilot she almost drove it for 2 months with over 1000km milege now that's customer service!
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      12-18-2012, 02:50 PM   #24
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I don't have any issue with folks airing their troubles. I just find it interesting when the "issues" are minor and don't warrant the reaction. As folks often post at this point "first world problems".
What I couldn't agree with your points is that you just keep saying that everything is "minor".... Well, they may really be "minor".

I DO understand that you had many "major" issues with your past cars, but...

Try to think the other way. For example, you never had any "minor" issues with your previous cars (no matter what the maker was), and you bought a brand new F30 expecting top quality because BMW means top quality (well, compare to crappy asian cars), and top class service too, then all of sudden you find that your less than 1 month old car has this issue, that issue, and another issue (they could be real minor issues, though), do you think they all seem to be "minor" issues to you who never had such issues in the previous cars?

I, personally, never had such "minor" issues in my 25 years of car experience, and I can guess that most users in this forum including OP are in similar situation as mine.

So, please stop saying everything is all "minor"!

It could be "minor" to you, because you had such horrible "major" experiences,

but most whining or "first world problem" users in this forum are not considering them as "minor" because all the issues are REALLY "first" ever issues to them. That includes myself, too!

Please have a deep breath, and try to think from the other side, not from your own side.

I agree, though, with your suggested approach strategy to dealers or BMW when there is an issue or concern to express.
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      12-18-2012, 03:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BimmerHJ View Post
What I couldn't agree with your points is that you just keep saying that everything is "minor".... Well, they may really be "minor".

I DO understand that you had many "major" issues with your past cars, but...

Try to think the other way. For example, you never had any "minor" issues with your previous cars (no matter what the maker was), and you bought a brand new F30 expecting top quality because BMW means top quality (well, compare to crappy asian cars), and top class service too, then all of sudden you find that your less than 1 month old car has this issue, that issue, and another issue (they could be real minor issues, though), do you think they all seem to be "minor" issues to you who never had such issues in the previous cars?

I, personally, never had such "minor" issues in my 25 years of car experience, and I can guess that most users in this forum including OP are in similar situation as mine.

So, please stop saying everything is all "minor"!

It could be "minor" to you, because you had such horrible "major" experiences,

but most whining or "first world problem" users in this forum are not considering them as "minor" because all the issues are REALLY "first" ever issues to them. That includes myself, too!

Please have a deep breath, and try to think from the other side, not from your own side.

I agree, though, with your suggested approach strategy to dealers or BMW when there is an issue or concern to express.

Absolutely, an issue is an issue. But reserve calling in reinforcements for "more serious" issues lest you wear out your welcome. I guess everyone looks at things differently. I've had plenty of cars with "minor" issues myself. Hell, in many cases I've actually fixed them myself even though they were under warranty. That's just how I do things. I've also had plenty of cars with zero issues through hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm not taking issue with the severity of the problems. I'm just pointing out that you've got to keep everything in perspective.

And in all honesty, a cursory review of reliability reports by various outlets will point out that BMW (or any European premium for that matter) are rarely at the top of the list for quality and reliability. The top spots have been held by Asian manufacturers for years. Ironically, the things that keep the Euros out of contention are reports of defects such as these. Add to that these brands offer bleeding-edge technology that takes time to gain acceptance and, in some cases, reliability. The more mainstream manufacturers keep things plain vanilla, so there's little risk.

All in all, is it really reasonable to write off an entire BRAND because of a handful of problems on a single car and experiences with a single dealer? I would opine it is not.
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      12-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
I don't disagree with anything you've said. But, my point is that your issues were incredibly minor in nature. You need to pick your battles. None of these issues were affecting the performance of the car or your ability to drive it. They were simply annoyances.
Sure, they were minor (the first ones). However, they still meant I had to drive to the shop back and forth 2 times (each time). I don't know how you value your time, but mine is extremely valuable.

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Your expectation of him to take care of the issues and communication with you was a tad unreasonable. Now if you were not able to drive the car, or the service department never provided an updates or feedback, THEN I could see involving the sales guy. But not at the point you did.
Why not? I contacted him the third time something had gone wrong, and at that point it was due to negligence in the organization he represents. Further, he may be "just" a sales guy, but he was my contact. He was the one I planned the car with and we shook hands when I placed the order. When things go really wrong, that's the guy I call.
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It seems you have incredibly high expectations on many different levels. You need to realize nothing and no person is perfect. Price is wholly irrelevant.
Disagree. I do not think it is "having high expectations" to expect someone to care about another person they have done business with. It is called courtesy and respect. I hold others to the same standards I do for myself and my employees.

I was courteous and asked for help with problems with my brand new car and was given the cold shoulder. In what world is that to be simply accepted?
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      12-18-2012, 05:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
Absolutely, an issue is an issue. But reserve calling in reinforcements for "more serious" issues lest you wear out your welcome.
Strange perspective. The day an existing customer wears out his welcome in your organization is the day your competition gains a new one without working a second for it.

Please keep in mind that I am not discussing rude or obnoxious customers here. However, I think as a customer you have and should exercise your rights and make sure you get the service you deserve.

Had I not stood up for my rights and raised some minor hell today to get attention, my car would likely still be in my driveway faulty. Now it's fixed.

As far as the dealership and their feelings are concerned, they can either value me as a customer or not. But I will act accordingly if and when I notice they don't want my business in the future.
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      12-19-2012, 09:47 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Sprocket View Post
Strange perspective. The day an existing customer wears out his welcome in your organization is the day your competition gains a new one without working a second for it.

Please keep in mind that I am not discussing rude or obnoxious customers here. However, I think as a customer you have and should exercise your rights and make sure you get the service you deserve.

Had I not stood up for my rights and raised some minor hell today to get attention, my car would likely still be in my driveway faulty. Now it's fixed.

As far as the dealership and their feelings are concerned, they can either value me as a customer or not. But I will act accordingly if and when I notice they don't want my business in the future.
Just ignore his opinion. Some people can have quite different mind, and that kind of different mind is less than 0.01%.
I saw from the other threads he's saying everything is "minor", and his "major" issue means the car doesn't start or drives forward with R gear.
I don't know why but he's extremely generous guy in terms of manufacturer's defects. I guess because he's in sales area.
And for the last, he likes this rusty BMW as he thinks every brand new F30 with rusty seat frame or hinge is real "minor" issue.
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      12-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by rayusaFL View Post
Having owned a VW, Infiniti and a Nissan before I bought my BMW, I have to say that BMW has the worst customer service.

Worst service I've ever had was a Chrysler-Plymouth followed by Ford-Mazda dealer, then Nissan.
Both Audi and BMW have been great to me.
Sure, they don't always get the problem fixed right away, but the customer service was/is great. I always get loaner cars from my BMW dealer, and they always have very good coffee, or soda, bottled water and a variety of snacks.

Most experiences have much more to do with the individual dealership than the actual brand, imo.
But, premium brands tend to have higher expectations of their dealerships across the board.
I have had the opposite experiences with Audi and BMW... Best service I've seen is Benz...

I had a lemon 08 a6 3.2 and it was months of arguing before they made it right by selling a brand new A8L for 58k... I have had bad experiences with BMW including getting a f150 as a loaner, multiple trips for the same problem and even having one dealer tell me not to take care of the car because its a lease. I had one service tech lie to me when I work on cars (tried to say it would take hours to aim a drivers headlight when it takes 5 minutes, then he told me I didn't know new cars so I went to the dealer with two tools and brought him outside, adjusted the aim and then Walked him to the managers office where he apologized and I made him look so dumb in front of the entire dept)

My thoughts: use a enthusiast as a service manager rather than a tech or service advisor and the customer sat would sky rocket, would bet my savings on it
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      12-19-2012, 12:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprocket View Post
Strange perspective. The day an existing customer wears out his welcome in your organization is the day your competition gains a new one without working a second for it.

Please keep in mind that I am not discussing rude or obnoxious customers here. However, I think as a customer you have and should exercise your rights and make sure you get the service you deserve.

Had I not stood up for my rights and raised some minor hell today to get attention, my car would likely still be in my driveway faulty. Now it's fixed.

As far as the dealership and their feelings are concerned, they can either value me as a customer or not. But I will act accordingly if and when I notice they don't want my business in the future.

I can only base my comments on the words you've written. I can't read your body language or gauge your tone of voice. I don't have the luxury of knowing if you've handled this in a civil or rude/obnoxious manner. I also don't have the luxury of hearing the other side of the story either.

Everything I've said is based on the fact that you started this entire thread with the title "Starting to regret buying a BMW". In other words, you're writing off the entire brand because of poor experiences at an independent dealer with a single car. Add to that you've made this comment after experiencing a total of 4 problems. We obviously hold differing opinions as to what is minor and what is not minor so no sense in revisiting that.

It appears on the surface that you have a rather low threshold for writing things off. I may be wrong here, but that's how it appears. Perhaps the dealership personnel picked up on this and chose not to fight? I personally don't respond at all to irrational demands or threats from customers. (I'm not saying that you were demanding or threatening, I'm just suggesting that perhaps it might have been perceived that you were. Again, no way of knowing the other side of the story).

You've also suggested that you're happy to spread the word about how horrible this particular dealership is as well. This IS a threat, no doubt about it. It takes a long time to build a good reputation and mere seconds to destroy one. I'm sure you understand this if you're in business yourself. Most business owners will go out of their way to try to protect their reputations. Others will not, or they chose their battles carefully.

I'm not trying to take sides or suggest that it's OK for a new car to have problems or a dealership to treat customers poorly. I'm also realistic enough to recognize that nothing is ever perfect 100% of the time. I'm entrenched squarely in the middle trying to weigh the issues on both sides and potentially offer a different perspective. My very first inclination in all matters is to first ask "why?". Why do you hold the opinions that you do? Why did the dealership respond the way it did? Why did your salesman respond the way that he did? We now know why you have the opinions you do, but it's still not clear why the dealership and salesman responded the way they did.

Out of curiosity, with whom did you raise hell to finally get the issues addressed? I'm also curious, now that you've received some manner of resolution, has your opinion changed in any way or are you seeking out a different dealership?

It's wholly possible that I'm way off base in my assessment of the chain of events. Perhaps it was the way things were worded. Perhaps I perceived things in a different manner than you intended. I'm not trying to attack you or give you a hard time. I'm sympathetic to your plight. I've been on the receiving end of poor service myself too many times to count. I guess I just handle things differently or I have a higher threshold of tolerance. In the end, we're all here because we're enthusiasts who are very interested to know all that we can about our cars and share our experiences with others who are similarly inclined.
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      12-19-2012, 12:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerHJ View Post
Just ignore his opinion. Some people can have quite different mind, and that kind of different mind is less than 0.01%.
I saw from the other threads he's saying everything is "minor", and his "major" issue means the car doesn't start or drives forward with R gear.
I don't know why but he's extremely generous guy in terms of manufacturer's defects. I guess because he's in sales area.
And for the last, he likes this rusty BMW as he thinks every brand new F30 with rusty seat frame or hinge is real "minor" issue.
Hey, that's a damn good looking E28!

I'm perfectly content with the fact that we agree to disagree! It's interesting how many folks get upset because others don't hold an opinion that's in line with their own. Even better when the tell someone their opinion is "wrong".

Interesting story - about a week ago a teen in Philadelphia shot a guy on the subway following a basketball game...because he didn't agree with him.
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      12-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
Hey, that's a damn good looking E28!

I'm perfectly content with the fact that we agree to disagree! It's interesting how many folks get upset because others don't hold an opinion that's in line with their own. Even better when the tell someone their opinion is "wrong".

Interesting story - about a week ago a teen in Philadelphia shot a guy on the subway following a basketball game...because he didn't agree with him.
Now, I agree.
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      12-19-2012, 03:28 PM   #33
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While I agree that I don't expect to have a lot quality issues with my BMW, I do not buy BMWs specifically for their quality.
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      12-20-2012, 03:54 AM   #34
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Edit: Long, long story sent as a PM instead.
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Last edited by Sprocket; 12-20-2012 at 04:00 AM.
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      12-20-2012, 04:45 AM   #35
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I also Have issues with my new BMW... Noisy Brakes when cold, Noisy windshield wipers, rusty under seat metal... etc... I love the way this car drives, but "attention to detail' Bmw quality is not 100% there
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