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      12-09-2012, 09:58 PM   #45
NemesisX
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Originally Posted by blutattoo View Post
Those transmissions you're talking about are not automatic transmissions, they are dual clutch transmissions that have an automatic mode. In order to reap the benefits you mention on the track they must be operated in a manual mode which requires the driver to shift. The car mentioned in the post doesn't have either. It would source the existing six-speed auto already in use. Automatic cars on a track are lame, dual clutch cars on a track are fast and for the most part fun, traditional manuals on a track take skill and driver involvement to master, thus the reason purists still like them.

Hey not everybody can drive a manual the right way nor do some people even care about driver involvement. Those that can and do might prefer to be fully engaged rather than shaving .5 sec off a lap at 10/10ths.

As for video game driving, last time I checked an xbox or ps3 controller was only controlled by your hands. Sounds a lot like those other transmissions you were talking about.

Bring the RS6 avant in a manual and I will buy one, even if I am one of the 7 people left on earth who prefer one. That thing is awesome.
My mistake, you're right. A DCT driven like a manual isn't likely to reap the same MPG benefits that a full auto will (mostly because people are just naturally inclined to stay in lower gears for longer periods of time when given the opportunity, whereas an automatic transmission is always looking to put you into a high, gas-conserving gear). I used "automatic" in my last post but I really meant "DCT" (or equivalent - anything that allows you to manually choose and hold gears with steering wheel-mounted paddles).

I certainly agree with fully automatic transmissions being lame in general (particularly on the track). No disagreement there.
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      12-09-2012, 10:42 PM   #46
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A mix between a Subaru and Jetta. What do these run, $40k? I wouldn't pay a dime more. Just not worth it by looks and material.
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      12-10-2012, 10:29 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by NemesisX View Post
The problem with a traditional manual transmission is that it doesn't do anything well anymore (other than give people a greater sense of involvement).
What if driver involvement means more than just about every other aspect?

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It's slower around the track compared to paddle shifting variants. It gets worse gas mileage (on average) than most automatic transmissions.

It's great for people who willingly want to be slower around a track in exchange for performing unnecessary and extraneous maneuvers. It provides a "video game" feel to driving.
I drive a supercharged V6... if I wanted good gas mileage I would have bought a Prius. I've also never been on a track and I don't feel like I'm playing a game... I feel like I'm driving a car that I have full control over.

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There seems to be a lot of outcry about the lack of manual transmission on most car forums, but the corresponding sales figures never seem to match. BMW is already scrapping the traditional manual transmission for its next M5. Developing a traditional manual transmission M5 for all of the 7 people who want it just isn't a financially sensible option anymore. It's costing them money.
That's similar to saying that most Americans are sick while you're sitting in a doctors office. Enthusiasts on auto forums are largely those purists who enjoy a manual. I just did a little bit of non-scientific research on cars.com for the M5 between 2007-10 (only years they offered both the SMG and 6MT in the M5) and of 212 cars for sale, 66 were manual. That's a 31% take rate. I did the same thing for the M3 for the last 10 years. 1,006 cars for sale and 492 are manual, a 49% take rate. If I shorten it to last 5 years (with the DCT available), the take rate on a true manual goes to 51%.
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      12-10-2012, 10:37 AM   #48
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The problem lies in the fact that flappy paddle setups are getting better and better, plus more and more efficient. Manual transmissions peaked a long time ago. The new Porsche 7 speed is a weird duck, with rumors that it's not actually a mechanical shift pattern. I've driven one, and while I prefer it, I also see why folks choose the DSG for the 991.

I'd guess that if you compare F10 and E60 M5 manual sales, the take rate of the F10 will be much lower. I also suspect that removing the high rev nature of the older motors in the E60 and E9x M cars will also be partially responsible for higher take rates in two pedal setups. While your S4 sort of conflicts with my stance that flat torque curves aren't as much fun with a manual as a flappy paddle, I do think that take rates for manual S4's are lower on the B8 model than the B7.
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      12-10-2012, 12:02 PM   #49
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      12-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #50
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Looks amazing!!!
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      12-10-2012, 12:28 PM   #51
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Yeah, I'd drive that even if I had to stick my feet through the floorboards like the Flintstones.
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      12-10-2012, 12:37 PM   #52
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Looks like that version has carbon fiber pieces on the front bumper where the previous pics had aluminum and it looks like that "quattro" is here to stay.
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      12-10-2012, 12:42 PM   #53
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...it looks like that "quattro" is here to stay.
How long until they light it up with LED's?
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      12-10-2012, 12:51 PM   #54
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Funny sidenote on the LEDs... I got the VAG-COM for the Audi and I learned that you can turn up the LED brightness. To give you an idea of how bright they are now, they come from the factory at 9% brightness. I turned them up to 100% and I look like a rack of stadium lights driving down the road.
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      12-10-2012, 12:56 PM   #55
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Funny sidenote on the LEDs... I got the VAG-COM for the Audi and I learned that you can turn up the LED brightness. To give you an idea of how bright they are now, they come from the factory at 9% brightness. I turned them up to 100% and I look like a rack of stadium lights driving down the road.
Ha, I didn't know that. Fitting, given Audi's rally history. You just need a set of 8" PIAA driving lights on the grille too.
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      12-10-2012, 12:58 PM   #56
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How long until they light it up with LED's?
OMG, I was thinking the same thing.
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      12-10-2012, 01:05 PM   #57
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Looks like that version has carbon fiber pieces on the front bumper where the previous pics had aluminum and it looks like that "quattro" is here to stay.
See official pics on page 1. Theres a grey model without QUATTRO lettering.

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Funny sidenote on the LEDs... I got the VAG-COM for the Audi and I learned that you can turn up the LED brightness. To give you an idea of how bright they are now, they come from the factory at 9% brightness. I turned them up to 100% and I look like a rack of stadium lights driving down the road.
That's crazy! I didn't know that.
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      12-10-2012, 01:38 PM   #58
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      12-10-2012, 02:47 PM   #59
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      12-10-2012, 02:49 PM   #60
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Wonder if we'll get a crack at these up here. The last gen was only brought in by an importer out east that charged a hefty premium.
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      12-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #61
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Meh, guess I'm the only one who doesn't like it.
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      12-10-2012, 03:52 PM   #62
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Look at that rear fender flare. I love that.
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      12-10-2012, 05:48 PM   #63
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Quote:
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How long until they light it up with LED's?
Seriously, I like that idea. It would be even better if "quattro" was written in mirror.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Funny sidenote on the LEDs... I got the VAG-COM for the Audi and I learned that you can turn up the LED brightness. To give you an idea of how bright they are now, they come from the factory at 9% brightness. I turned them up to 100% and I look like a rack of stadium lights driving down the road.
Nice. Did not know that. How do you regulate them? Via MMI or OBD? I wonder if BMW has that.
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      12-10-2012, 11:32 PM   #64
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That's for DRL LED lights not low beam LED headlights (if you got them). Also you don't want DRLs to be at full brightness because it will overpower the turn signal which can be potentially unsafe.

Quote:
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Funny sidenote on the LEDs... I got the VAG-COM for the Audi and I learned that you can turn up the LED brightness. To give you an idea of how bright they are now, they come from the factory at 9% brightness. I turned them up to 100% and I look like a rack of stadium lights driving down the road.
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      12-11-2012, 07:25 AM   #65
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Nice. Did not know that. How do you regulate them? Via MMI or OBD? I wonder if BMW has that.
I regulate them through the VAG-COM software which plugs into the OBDII port. It's similar to coding a BMW.
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      12-11-2012, 07:30 AM   #66
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That's for DRL LED lights not low beam LED headlights (if you got them). Also you don't want DRLs to be at full brightness because it will overpower the turn signal which can be potentially unsafe.
Audi thought of that ahead of time and made the LEDs "wink" when you hit the turn signal. FWIW, I've also disabled that function so they stay on constantly. You can still easily see the turn signal (I tested it out).
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