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      12-04-2012, 03:25 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Also, it is me,or this car looks disproportionate from lateral?
What are they smoking in there?
I think they're on some synthetic stuff; no grass could make such damage
the 3er got stretched; that's why it looks strange.
Practically they tried to make a fish form out of it; they made it long, sleek and with a coupe like hood. After they stretched the fish in the middle to make it into a bulbous fish.

In addition to that French magazine render I posted 3 posts back, here is how the German press imagined the 3er Gt GT when it was announced. The render looks nice.
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      12-04-2012, 05:26 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Terpinator View Post
I held off responding to this quote for a while to let the full effect sink in. I'm in the tiny minority who thinks that it looks OK, particularly in M Sport guise. That said, it would look so much better without the high roofline. Why couldn't BMW just use the same, sleek roofline of the 3 sedan and add the hatch? It would look great. The raised roof and larger greenhouse is what takes away from the overall look. I was seriously considering this version as my next car (if it would be offered in the US), but have decided against it. Looking OK isn't enough...
The problem is, if they start squashing it then does start to become pointless - the 3GT's selling point over the Saloon and the Tourer is the space for passengers. People seem to immediately jump to the conclusion that the touring is more practical - it may have a larger load lugging capacity, but it's not that spacious in the back.. the 3GT caters more to people who will likely have 4 adults in the car, rather than need to carry a couple of labradors in the boot.

Like I say, the more normal they try and make it the less useful it will actually be. The Audi A5 SB is a pointless car, it is marginally more cramped than the A4 in the back, and offers very little extra load space, it really is just for people who don't like the look of the A4 saloon or A4 avant. The 3GT will differentiate itself from the F30/F31 by actually offering more space.
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      12-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #333
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What an ugly car!
That gt render above looks better.
BMW should stick with a wagon!
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      12-04-2012, 08:12 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
I have a question for you now.
Please explain how the increasingly numb steering is a response to market demands? Literally how many people said, "I love the car, but the steering wheel is just telling me too much about what the front wheels are doing. Please kill all feel in the new model". When I say feel I am not referring to weight, but rather how the weight changes depending on grip levels. I feel that needed clarification as BMW seems to have forgotten the difference here lately.

I look forward to your reply.
The steering is disappointing but I'm willing to give BMW a pass on the switch to electric steering because they're not the only one who's having trouble with that aspect of the car. Do some do better than others yes (see: Audi S4/S5) but if Porsche can't get it right with the Boxster, clearly manufacturers are having a little difficulty getting it right so right now, it isn't that big of a problem.
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      12-04-2012, 08:19 AM   #335
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I have given this further thought. In the opinion of this architect those GT models look like they are pregnant. Pregnant woman are beautiful. Pregnant BMW's are ugly.
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      12-04-2012, 09:03 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Antares View Post
How I hoped BMW 3er GT would look like.

The practicality of 5 door; higher sitting position, elegant proportions; perfect car. I'm 30, and I would buy something like this at once.

BMW should hire car-magazine illustrators.
It looks almost *exactly* like that:

http://www.f30post.com/goodiesforyou...48930228-O.jpg

There are some minor cosmetic differences (marker light locations), but otherwise, very similar. The rear roofline is a little higher. Keep in mind that what works in illustrations often does not work in real life. Passengers have to get in and out of the car and sit in the back seat without knocking their head against the roofline.
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      12-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Much negativity but again no one listens.
The auto industry is a global playing field. This is no longer about you.

BMW used to be a predictable car company we only made exciting cars for the enthusiast driver yet neglected the needs and demands from other customers for exciting cars to allow them to fullfill their daily requirements.

The X5 was the first step out of predictability and then we took other giant steps with the 1er , X3 , X1 , X6 and 5er GT because we found there were customers out there who we did not cater too and we can provide those needs with the BMW philosophy and added style.

These cars might be dismissed by brand enthusiasts and traditionalists but they do exactly what BMW needs them to do and that is provide business growth. BMW's global perspective has increased it has entered new markets and heavily penetrated the worlds largest market for luxury vehicles - China where it over took the US as BMW no 1 export market.
BMW is also experiencing a strong sales reaction within growing markets of India and Brazil markets that are emerging for auto makers.

BMW is well aware of US reaction to the 5er GT just as it is aware that even in the US the car does have a customer base enough to make the 5er GT sell its first year on the market - three years worth of combined units of the BMW 5er Touring (E61).

The car has done well within Europe and has seen an increase of units thanks to the introduction of a super-efficient 520d model. GT customers do not cater to adopt the opinions of other people. The 3er GT will bring prospective ownership to a new segment and we have to consider business customers aswell as new to the brand customers which our research had shown where the larger majority base that bought the 5er GT.

One market where the GT has excelled is China , on the streets of Europe a GT and a Mercedes-Benz R-Klasse are a rarity, not in China they are not.
GT customers in China choose it over the higher status of the Chinese only market 5er Li. The 3er Li which went on sale this past few months is also dominating the market and the 3er GT will also be available for Chinese customers.

The 5er Gran Turismo did not exactly win universal praise . But I have one and there is a dedicated forum here for owners , including from the US who can actually voice their opinion on why they chose the 5er GT. Or actually they cant because they become drowned out.

The GT series is a car that extends the customers option of a sedan,Touring, SAV and a MPV in one package but the car excells more in its excellent top-flight cabin and refinement heavily overlooked because of reaction to the exterior.

The 3er GT is an extension off of the architecture that sits under the new range of BMW's primarily F20 and F30 , the car is entirely cost effective to manufacturer from an economic perspective. BMW's CEO has publically claimed that the 3er GT is a car that will provide a substantial return because its development is already bought and paid for.

The 3er GT features more than the 5er GT its less business-like and retains the priotities of a 3er meaning that there will be areas for the keen to driver to exploit as per the segment. For what the 5er and 3er Gran Turismo represent is that for the customer they can have that much needed functionality and flexibility but with more style and individuality.

As long as there are new niches to exploit and new markets to explore BMW will continue to expand on the opportunity to appeal to a global audience.

Famous last words before the demise of BMW
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      12-04-2012, 09:13 AM   #338
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Famous last words before the demise of BMW
BMW U.S. Sales Up Whopping 38% in November 2012 for Best Sales Month Ever.

Oops.
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      12-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
It looks almost *exactly* like that:

http://www.f30post.com/goodiesforyou...48930228-O.jpg

There are some minor cosmetic differences (marker light locations), but otherwise, very similar. The rear roofline is a little higher. Keep in mind that what works in illustrations often does not work in real life. Passengers have to get in and out of the car and sit in the back seat without knocking their head against the roofline.
It's not similar. The renders show a low "SUV"; the real stuff has a "Pregnant Coupe Form"
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      12-04-2012, 11:36 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
I have a question for you now.
Please explain how the increasingly numb steering is a response to market demands? Literally how many people said, "I love the car, but the steering wheel is just telling me too much about what the front wheels are doing. Please kill all feel in the new model". When I say feel I am not referring to weight, but rather how the weight changes depending on grip levels. I feel that needed clarification as BMW seems to have forgotten the difference here lately.

I look forward to your reply.
The steering is disappointing but I'm willing to give BMW a pass on the switch to electric steering because they're not the only one who's having trouble with that aspect of the car. Do some do better than others yes (see: Audi S4/S5) but if Porsche can't get it right with the Boxster, clearly manufacturers are having a little difficulty getting it right so right now, it isn't that big of a problem.
Yeah, but this trend was going on even before the switch to electric steering.

I really hope Scott answers my question, and doesn't use cop outs such as: "Well you don't have to get a newer BMW", "Have fun with another brand", or go the defender route saying everyone is wrong about the F30's steering.
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      12-04-2012, 11:45 AM   #341
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Sorry it's UGLY.

Compare the rear roofline to a CLS, A7, CC and you will see this not a worthy competitor. I just don't think BMW gets the whole four door hatch. There GT cars look like they started with a wagon design and just smooshed the back.
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      12-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #342
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It seems from what SCOTT posted that BMW doesn't really cater nor care about the thoughts of enthusiasts, as they are just a fraction of the market. This being an enthusiasts forum is probably not the right place to be posting and discussing this atrocity.

No need to get upset over these comments SCOTT. Enthusiasts simply do not like this car. You'll sell it well, as you've shown through past numbers, and that's all that matters.
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      12-04-2012, 01:08 PM   #343
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Sorry it's UGLY.

Compare the rear roofline to a CLS, A7, CC and you will see this not a worthy competitor. I just don't think BMW gets the whole four door hatch. There GT cars look like they started with a wagon design and just smooshed the back.
The GT is not a competitor to those cars. BMW is developing the 4-series Gran Coupe to compete with those on style.
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      12-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #344
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The GT is not a competitor to those cars. BMW is developing the 4-series Gran Coupe to compete with those on style.
So its a competitor for the Honda CrossTour and Toyota Venza? I am sorry its the Pontiac Aztec of BMW.
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      12-04-2012, 02:49 PM   #345
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So its a competitor for the Honda CrossTour and Toyota Venza? I am sorry its the Pontiac Aztec of BMW.
Probably a competitor to the X3, for those who don't want to drive an SUV but need more room than a standard sedan. I know everyone here absolutely loves Touring models, but to most in the US, they still have that old/stuffy "station wagon" stigma. The 3 GT will at least have the distinction of being "unique". Not that I would consider one, however.
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      12-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #346
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Probably a competitor to the X3, for those who don't want to drive an SUV but need more room than a standard sedan. I know everyone here absolutely loves Touring models, but to most in the US, they still have that old/stuffy "station wagon" stigma. The 3 GT will at least have the distinction of being "unique". Not that I would consider one, however.
My Wife is one of them so I understand your point. I like the X1 but you are right some people love these things.
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      12-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #347
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Quote:
It seems from what SCOTT posted that BMW doesn't really cater nor care about the thoughts of enthusiasts, as they are just a fraction of the market. This being an enthusiasts forum is probably not the right place to be posting and discussing this atrocity.
Enthusiasts are still very much in our thinking look at the 1M for example as catering to enthusiast demands. But everyone learns that you cannot please everyone and there were enthusiasts that turned their nose up at even the 1M.
What you have to realise is that in the industry there is constant progression whether in design , technology or even the customers requirements. There is no way a company like BMW especially as it is independent can stand back and let their competitors walk over them.

a BMW has to appeal to a global audience and that means reflecting the current trends , ideas and cultures. From an enthusiast point of view BMW still provide the best handling dynamic character as expected from a BMW in a typical original BMW fashion, BMW are not trying to imitate anybody else in that department.

No need to get upset over these comments SCOTT. Enthusiasts simply do not like this car. You'll sell it well, as you've shown through past numbers, and that's all that matters.

I do not get upset , I just let out a sigh and move on because I have heard it all before , on this and that but as time progresses everything we do is criticized and disected by many parties but as we progress time proves we were right all along.

If we take the 3er GT for example one of my tasks in marketing a new model is to organize and make good use of focus groups to introduce the new model which the 3er GT was generally accepted. As the car was presented to not only current BMW customers of existing or previous 3er models but also customers who have never owned a BMW before. Hatchback/Fastback models are immensely popular in Europe for the customer that needs more flexibility than an existing sedan.

A focus group participant told me that he went to a VW focus group where they showed a five dr version of the next euro Passat model which up until 1988 was a five dr initially.
And they listed the 3er GT as a potential rival.

As we will communicate the 3er Gran Turismo is essentially still a 3er but with a broader range of flexibility. In Europe for example , not everyone wants the utility of a Touring and unlike the US not everyone will go for the SAV option.
Each BMW model is developed from the onset to match the customers needs and the 3er GT is no different.

The 3er GT is not for everyone but those who will choose it will for the reasons discussed here individuality , flexibility and those that overlook convention.
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      12-04-2012, 04:22 PM   #348
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SCOTT, yes things are evolving and the market has become global. Still no excuse for the polarising, but mainly aversion evoking designs they put forward. Makes me adore my old E39 even more as a classic beauty, just like the F10 who still has got the X-factor also.

You say that criticism is normal but always has proved to be wrong... I don't buy that, even the offensively ugly Bangle 7-series had to be facelifted early and substantial. When you see a young timer E65 these days, it holds no cancle to earlier E23/32/38 models. I still omit to see good reasons for inferior design. Look at the www for global first reactions on 3 GT, 80% of the reactions are simple and pure aversions on design.

You say it's mainly targeting Europe? The 5GT certainly wasn't. I see the price will put it above the touring also...?? Also here, it will not be a fast moving item then and it will become obsolete immediately, after a first wave of early adopters buying a few thousands of them.

Will certainly not become a classic. I hope they at least will earn a bit on it.
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      12-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #349
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So ugly = =
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      12-04-2012, 05:41 PM   #350
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SCOTT, yes things are evolving and the market has become global. Still no excuse for the polarising, but mainly aversion evoking designs they put forward. Makes me adore my old E39 even more as a classic beauty, just like the F10 who still has got the X-factor also.

You say that criticism is normal but always has proved to be wrong... I don't buy that, even the offensively ugly Bangle 7-series had to be facelifted early and substantial. When you see a young timer E65 these days, it holds no cancle to earlier E23/32/38 models. I still omit to see good reasons for inferior design. Look at the www for global first reactions on 3 GT, 80% of the reactions are simple and pure aversions on design.

The E65/E66 7er were NOT despite incorrect opinion facelifted early. The LCi for the new 7er model was launched in Geneva 2005 , The production car debuted at the IAA in September 2001. Considering the F01/F02 were launched in July 2008 there is no way the car was facelifted early its Lci was on schedule. Until the F01/F02 came along the polarizing E65 was actually the best selling 7er model ever it also spearheaded BMW's Asian market sales and brought the 7er into contention in these markets where it remains as the largest market for the 7er.

The 3er GT like the 5er GT is an acquired choice. My wife has a GT and she says it is one the best individually tailored car she has ever owned. Her favourite aspect is the interior and also the driving position she says gives her an excellent view of the road ahead.

I invite 5er GT owners from this forum to list what they like about the 5er GT? and why they chose it?

You say it's mainly targeting Europe? The 5GT certainly wasn't. I see the price will put it above the touring also...?? Also here, it will not be a fast moving item then and it will become obsolete immediately, after a first wave of early adopters buying a few thousands of them.

I have already covered this and We will see , how will you react if the low volume 3er GT actually does better than expected?

Will certainly not become a classic. I hope they at least will earn a bit on it.

The 3er GT is based upon the matrix that forms the rest of the 3er and upcoming 4er models. So the GT is entirely cost effective for BMW.
The 5er GT is again formed from the larger L6 matrix or backbone which covers the 5er , 6er and 7er models. These new matrixes are developed to be cost effective so additional models can be created on these modular platforms. As these are entirely cost effective for BMW, profit margins on this new generation of BMWs is significantly higher than before per car.
I would also like to point out something else that has been overlooked.
the 5er GT is NOT a volume level car so sales should not be as high as some of you were expecting. BMW's initial strategy on launch was to sell around 15,000-20,000 units of the 5er GT per year.
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      12-04-2012, 06:15 PM   #351
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SCOTT, I really admire your FIRE and THRUST you keep injecting in the brand we all want to excel so much! I really do want BMW to be where it must be: at the far top end of the food chain. Delivering leaner, more satisfying cars at a higher but still reasonable cost.

I just don't see how a 5GT, 3GT and SAV's are assuring my next 3-touring or 5-sedan will still be on top there. I just see first pictures of the new RS-6 and really...even on the first few pics, it can positively immediately excite me. Few new BMW models did this lately... when I was 15 years younger, every new bimmer was a feast for all senses. I remember that a M635Csi was a supercar!

btw, the E65 was a real misfit, still is, sorry to play hard on that. Just be honest to yourself...
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      12-04-2012, 08:10 PM   #352
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Is the F32 going to look like this? I not digging the looks.
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