F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20 and N26 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Boost Control change on F30?
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-06-2012, 09:18 AM   #23
MCD
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: F30 328i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Just gave it gas and BOOM reduced power and warnings like crazy. "Drivetrain Failure" and "Chasis Stabilization Failure".

That chassis stabilization failure is very strange!!! At least your car is running great now... how did you erase the error codes? Just by removing the tune?!
MCD is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 11:07 AM   #24
brian99997
Private
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

Posts: 85
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Who said I was worried about blowing my motor? I just said I don't want to lose my warranty because of a mod.



No other modifications. 93 octane gas. Just gave it gas and BOOM reduced power and warnings like crazy. "Drivetrain Failure" and "Chasis Stabilization Failure". Terry @ BMS told me to buy the BT cable and check codes to see what happened, which @ $300 I'm not exactly interested in. The only reason I needed it was because of his product. Now I feel stuck because I don't want to take it to the dealer because I'm concerned they will see I tuned it and void my warranty. He basically told me to take a hike and that the tune had nothing to do with the error. I am partial to believing that but his complete lack of interest in figuring out what it may be led me to return the product. I don't think I'm really going to be interested in BMS stuff anymore.
Think about the sensors that BMS is using, MAP (manifold pressure, detects vacuum or boost before it hits the combustion chamber) as well as the MAF (how much air flows past it) and then they are sending fake values to the ECU to make it adjust the wastegate solenoid more aggressively. Every aftermarket piggyback is going to be similar to this and I would imagine that like most ECU's, this one has a limit to what it is supposed to see and the car is throwing codes to protect itself from a bad solenoid or other sensor that could allow the car to overboost and blow the engine.

While I don't think BMS is unique to this possible problem, I am convinced that this style of ECU manipulation causes problems similar to yours. Perhaps your car was 3% better than the car on their dyno, that would be another 7hp and hp demands fuel.

That said, I want some type of tune for the car if for no other reason than to get rid of the lag/dead pedal space in non-sport mode and have some power for the street and I have read that BMS does so I will probably go that route soon if nobody makes something that gets to the 350hp area although that will probably involve a different turbo. I've talked to nearly every manufacturer out there and I would have to remove the tune every time I went to the track though because they (and probably the car in stock form) are not really engineered for running 20 minutes at a time.
brian99997 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 11:57 AM   #25
BRN55
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 335i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BR

Posts: 133
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
Think about the sensors that BMS is using, MAP (manifold pressure, detects vacuum or boost before it hits the combustion chamber) as well as the MAF (how much air flows past it) and then they are sending fake values to the ECU to make it adjust the wastegate solenoid more aggressively. Every aftermarket piggyback is going to be similar to this and I would imagine that like most ECU's, this one has a limit to what it is supposed to see and the car is throwing codes to protect itself from a bad solenoid or other sensor that could allow the car to overboost and blow the engine.

While I don't think BMS is unique to this possible problem, I am convinced that this style of ECU manipulation causes problems similar to yours. Perhaps your car was 3% better than the car on their dyno, that would be another 7hp and hp demands fuel.

That said, I want some type of tune for the car if for no other reason than to get rid of the lag/dead pedal space in non-sport mode and have some power for the street and I have read that BMS does so I will probably go that route soon if nobody makes something that gets to the 350hp area although that will probably involve a different turbo. I've talked to nearly every manufacturer out there and I would have to remove the tune every time I went to the track though because they (and probably the car in stock form) are not really engineered for running 20 minutes at a time.
Good points. Coming from Subarus and having friends that used to run UNICHIP and got rid of them because of constant CELs, this is why I still have not purchased the BMS. I am not comparing BMS X UNICHIP here, but they're both piggybacks, so that kind of worries me as the whole idea of faking sensors just doesn't sound interesting to me knowing how advanced tunes are nowadays (like Cobb, APR, GIAC, etc...)

Knowing very well about how tuning works for Subarus, I am really surprised that no one is making a decent reflash for the N20 yet. I wonder why? Is the ECU system so much different or complicated than let's say VW/AUDI? For example, for VW/AUDI, APR is so nice. So much potential we have with the N20, not being able to have a decent reflash yet really sucks.
BRN55 is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #26
ScarecrowBoat
Zooombie attaaack!!
 
ScarecrowBoat's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 328i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Iowa

Posts: 855
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCD View Post
That chassis stabilization failure is very strange!!! At least your car is running great now... how did you erase the error codes? Just by removing the tune?!
I haven't done anything. That is my problem, I possibly have error codes on my car and no way to erase them. I am trying to find somebody in the NE area with a BT cable I could borrow so I can see before going to the dealer.
__________________
12 BMW 328i
08 Range Rover Sport SC
ScarecrowBoat is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 08:55 PM   #27
brian99997
Private
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

Posts: 85
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJF30 View Post
Good points. Coming from Subarus and having friends that used to run UNICHIP and got rid of them because of constant CELs, this is why I still have not purchased the BMS. I am not comparing BMS X UNICHIP here, but they're both piggybacks, so that kind of worries me as the whole idea of faking sensors just doesn't sound interesting to me knowing how advanced tunes are nowadays (like Cobb, APR, GIAC, etc...)

Knowing very well about how tuning works for Subarus, I am really surprised that no one is making a decent reflash for the N20 yet. I wonder why? Is the ECU system so much different or complicated than let's say VW/AUDI? For example, for VW/AUDI, APR is so nice. So much potential we have with the N20, not being able to have a decent reflash yet really sucks.
Agreed, I don't think this is a debate between tuners just the methods they use. For me anyway..

I believe it was on the Burger site that said the N20/N55 engines are both completely different than previous generations which is why the piggyback systems are coming out so quickly as opposed to something from say Dinan who most likely has access to BMW factory tunes and would modify based on that directly with BMW methods.

From what I was able to find, the stock turbo itself really doesn't have much more room in it so tunes are only going to go so far.
brian99997 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 10:46 PM   #28
slmdgee
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 328I 6SPD
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island

Posts: 549
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
Agreed, I don't think this is a debate between tuners just the methods they use. For me anyway..

I believe it was on the Burger site that said the N20/N55 engines are both completely different than previous generations which is why the piggyback systems are coming out so quickly as opposed to something from say Dinan who most likely has access to BMW factory tunes and would modify based on that directly with BMW methods.

From what I was able to find, the stock turbo itself really doesn't have much more room in it so tunes are only going to go so far.

Do you know much power the stock clutch and tranny can hold?
__________________
2013 328i 6spd Bagged

More Pics @stu_usofstance Ig
slmdgee is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #29
BRN55
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 335i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BR

Posts: 133
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
Agreed, I don't think this is a debate between tuners just the methods they use. For me anyway..

I believe it was on the Burger site that said the N20/N55 engines are both completely different than previous generations which is why the piggyback systems are coming out so quickly as opposed to something from say Dinan who most likely has access to BMW factory tunes and would modify based on that directly with BMW methods.

From what I was able to find, the stock turbo itself really doesn't have much more room in it so tunes are only going to go so far.
Problem would be that Dinan is only available in the US?
BRN55 is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
      11-08-2012, 01:54 AM   #30
brian99997
Private
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

Posts: 85
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slmdgee View Post
Do you know much power the stock clutch and tranny can hold?
The 6 speed manual is the same GS6-17BG part # from basically all of the 325-328i type cars from 2005+ so you can basically look at the best power any of those cars could make with stock transmissions. The 335 is the same from 2008+ with part # GS6-45BZ so it isn't a good benchmark.

I have the 8 speed (good for 516lb/torque according to the manufacturer and 200ms shift time)
brian99997 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-08-2012, 01:56 AM   #31
brian99997
Private
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

Posts: 85
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJF30 View Post
Problem would be that Dinan is only available in the US?
That could be a problem for you but you could always move
brian99997 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2012, 11:35 AM   #32
eric@helix
 
eric@helix's Avatar
 
Drives: 01 M Coupe, 08 135i, '12 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia

Posts: 860
iTrader: (0)

We've had the BMS stage 1 on the car from new, with no problems--just better power and more fun. I'd hesitate to compare the BMS product to the Unichip as was done above. They both are piggybacks, but in my experience, that's where it ends. With all due respect to Unichip, the cars with Unichips that have come through the shop over the years have been nightmares: DTCs, poor running, poor performance. Cars with BMS products have been very good.

As a general rule, I am not a proponent of piggyback tuning (vs. direct flash), but the BMW tuning piggybacks are an exception. BMS and Vishnu have been brilliantly developed, partially because of their mortal head-to-head kombat. It's really impressive what these companies have been able to do. In a sense, we're competitors of both, but I'm also a fan. I did not hesitate for one second to put the BMS tuner on our brand new car.
__________________
eric@helix is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #33
bnekic
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 328i xDrive Sport Line
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH

Posts: 368
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric@helix
We've had the BMS stage 1 on the car from new, with no problems--just better power and more fun. I'd hesitate to compare the BMS product to the Unichip as was done above. They both are piggybacks, but in my experience, that's where it ends. With all due respect to Unichip, the cars with Unichips that have come through the shop over the years have been nightmares: DTCs, poor running, poor performance. Cars with BMS products have been very good.

As a general rule, I am not a proponent of piggyback tuning (vs. direct flash), but the BMW tuning piggybacks are an exception. BMS and Vishnu have been brilliantly developed, partially because of their mortal head-to-head kombat. It's really impressive what these companies have been able to do. In a sense, we're competitors of both, but I'm also a fan. I did not hesitate for one second to put the BMS tuner on our brand new car.
bnekic is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-11-2012, 07:41 PM   #34
BRN55
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 335i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BR

Posts: 133
iTrader: (0)

bla

Last edited by BRN55; 11-21-2012 at 08:39 PM.
BRN55 is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST