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      10-05-2012, 03:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I've seen that page before. Straight from the link: "BMW No holdback"
there's something else...there is always something...maybe they dont call it a holdback..but a rebate whatever...at the end of the day, ive purchased 2 cars at invoice before incentives this year...no way the dealer is going to sell me a car without making money on it...he just wont tell u exactly how it is he gets paid..
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      10-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #24
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Dealers get huge kickbacks for volume and customer service surveys!
I am technically getting my lease at $725 below invoice or $25 over invoice if you include the "aquisition fee". told the dealer I would give him $1,000 over invoice before my incentives, he said "great". had $1725 in incentives... I am happy, he is happy, perfect world, right? plus if he honors his word, he is giving me the full $40,000 trade credit on my trade in, even though I pulled $15,000 cash out, in IL you are only supposed to get a tax discount on the ammount "applied to the new car" which includes any ammount they pay that you owed on the trade in (really stupid law that just punishes people that pay off their cars!). He said he is using trade in "credits" to make up for it. Thats $1090 in taxes I don't have to pay, so in essence I feel like I am getting it at $90 below invoice I take delivery next week and after I hit him with the "money factor is now .00135" I wouldn't doubt he tries to back out of the full trade in credit (since it was a verbal agreement).
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      10-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Dealers get huge kickbacks for volume and customer service surveys!
I am technically getting my lease at $725 below invoice or $25 over invoice if you include the "aquisition fee". told the dealer I would give him $1,000 over invoice before my incentives, he said "great". had $1725 in incentives... I am happy, he is happy, perfect world, right? plus if he honors his word, he is giving me the full $40,000 trade credit on my trade in, even though I pulled $15,000 cash out, in IL you are only supposed to get a tax discount on the ammount "applied to the new car" which includes any ammount they pay that you owed on the trade in (really stupid law that just punishes people that pay off their cars!). He said he is using trade in "credits" to make up for it. Thats $1090 in taxes I don't have to pay, so in essence I feel like I am getting it at $90 below invoice I take delivery next week and after I hit him with the "money factor is now .00135" I wouldn't doubt he tries to back out of the full trade in credit (since it was a verbal agreement).
Ok well, no doubt he said "great" because you overpaid a little based on what I'm seeing but if you're happy that's all that matters.
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      10-05-2012, 04:59 PM   #26
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ES_TRADER, to answer your original question more directly: I've been reading these forums for months, and I've never heard of anyone getting an F30 3 series below invoice before incentives are applied, especially not a 335i.

I still don't understand why they agreed to sell you an ordered 2013 at invoice. Allocations are pretty tight right now, and I'm sure there are people that would pay more for that allocation/order slot. Maybe they will try and get you another way, like on lease terms or trade-in?
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      10-05-2012, 07:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER View Post
For a brand new ORDERED 335i. I'm getting Invoice on it. 2013 model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post

I still don't understand why they agreed to sell you an ordered 2013 at invoice. Allocations are pretty tight right now, and I'm sure there are people that would pay more for that allocation/order slot. Maybe they will try and get you another way, like on lease terms or trade-in?
I agree. Something is not adding up; perhaps we're missing some additional details? e.g. did you already agree to add the (highly profitable) extended warranty, or wheel/tire insurance, or some other after-market customizations? Did you agree on a trade-in price? Is it really $0 in dealer fees? My understanding is most dealers have some kind of fee, whether a prep fee, doc fee, MA CO, etc.

335 allocations are scarce. Why sell an allocation at invoice when they could easily sell it for $500-$1,000 over invoice, or trade it to another dealer for a car that will sell for a similar amount?

Puzzling! All I know is if there's really no catch, I want to know the dealer (once you've ordered) so that I can see about placing my order there!
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      10-05-2012, 08:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER View Post
For a brand new ORDERED 335i. I'm getting Invoice on it. 2013 model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post

I still don't understand why they agreed to sell you an ordered 2013 at invoice. Allocations are pretty tight right now, and I'm sure there are people that would pay more for that allocation/order slot. Maybe they will try and get you another way, like on lease terms or trade-in?
I agree. Something is not adding up; perhaps we're missing some additional details? e.g. did you already agree to add the (highly profitable) extended warranty, or wheel/tire insurance, or some other after-market customizations? Did you agree on a trade-in price? Is it really $0 in dealer fees? My understanding is most dealers have some kind of fee, whether a prep fee, doc fee, MA CO, etc.

335 allocations are scarce. Why sell an allocation at invoice when they could easily sell it for $500-$1,000 over invoice, or trade it to another dealer for a car that will sell for a similar amount?

Puzzling! All I know is if there's really no catch, I want to know the dealer (once you've ordered) so that I can see about placing my order there!
No there is no catch. Probably because I bought a car from him about 3 months ago. It is at invoice, no strings wheel package or warranties. Just the car and he gave me invoice minus my 750 loyalty credit which brings me to 750 below invoice for a 2013 335i m sport. Loaded.
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      10-06-2012, 05:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ES_TRADER View Post
No there is no catch. Probably because I bought a car from him about 3 months ago. It is at invoice, no strings wheel package or warranties. Just the car and he gave me invoice minus my 750 loyalty credit which brings me to 750 below invoice for a 2013 335i m sport. Loaded.
If you don't mind, I would really appreciate knowing who you bought from. I would be happy to give them some more business. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post publicly. Thanks!
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      10-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
No didn't know that. That's because everyone says BMW has no dealer incentive so I assumed that it was invoice + profit. That's what they say at Bimmerpost but that forum is sponsored by dealers so what can I say?

I just want to know whether the dealer BSes me when comes the time for the pulling of the kids card ("I have kids to feed")

Your not a very smart person at all...
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      10-06-2012, 09:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
No didn't know that. That's because everyone says BMW has no dealer incentive so I assumed that it was invoice + profit. That's what they say at Bimmerpost but that forum is sponsored by dealers so what can I say?

I just want to know whether the dealer BSes me when comes the time for the pulling of the kids card ("I have kids to feed&quot

Your not a very smart person at all...
And you're kind of a douche


edit..

In addition to calling Jaxxx a juvenile name i'd like to add that, in my three plus years on E90post, I haven't seen anyone getting deals like this. O.P. I see a few possibilities here. Either you are a master negotiator and should be teaching seminars, that dealership is running such huge volumes that they can run on slimmer margins, or you are telling stories. I'd love to see the numbers on your sale.
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      10-06-2012, 10:17 PM   #32
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Maybe I was lucky but I was able to order my 335i M-Sport at $500 below invoice. I also did the Drive for Team USA so I got that $1000 incentive as well. I got that 500 below invoice deal from a dealership about an hour away from my house so I just bought that offer to the nearest BMW dealership and they were happy to give me the same deal. The manager even took a 335i allocation from a west coast dealership and rerouted it to my dealership on the east coast. I was able to pick my options and because of the good deal I was getting, I got everything except active cruise control and 19" wheels in lieu for all season tires. I put down a deposit on 6/29 and drove the car home 8 weeks later!

So there are good deals out there and I think at invoice deal are good too given how popular these cars are especially the 335i!
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      10-07-2012, 12:51 AM   #33
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@ invoice here too
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      10-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I would be happy to pay $500 over ED invoice for a 335i ED....... Well if someone knows a dealer that likes an effortless sale around the SE PA area let me know!!!
I couldn't find anyone willing to go that low. There's a short list of dealers in the area even willing to do ED. I've yet to find one that was "effortless" to deal with! But in the end I had a good experience and, in my opinion, a decent deal given my special circumstance (ordered for ED with short notice).

Regarding everything else mentioned in this thread, BMW DOES have hold back and other incentives. This is the primary reason ED invoice is lower than US invoice - BMW recognizes that the dealer doesn't have to cover floor plan and other expenses, so they pass the savings to the consumer. Given the relatively high % of the discount, I would assume the dealers are getting some decent coin.

Also remember that the BMW dealer network is much smaller and more "controlled" than those of other mass-production manufacturers. It's very likely they're better able to keep the release of information as far as invoice pricing, etc. in check. For example, there's a pretty healthy amount of dealer incentives floating around right now, but you won't find details about any of them online.

Finally, if you're ordering a vehicle, it makes perfect sense that you could buy at invoice (if they have excess allocation) since the dealer gets to keep 100% of the holdback because it will never be in their inventory. The holdback is designed to assist the dealers with their carrying costs until the vehicle sells. A car sitting on the lot incurs interest and impacts the overhead operating expenses. I don't recall the specifics, but I think holdback is designed to carry a car 90 days.

The fundamental in ALL of this is the foundation of commerce - supply vs. demand. You can get a great deal on a run of the mill, higher volume vehicle. You'll be hard pressed to score a great deal on something that's tough to find and in high demand.

Last edited by BavarianFanatic; 10-07-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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      10-07-2012, 04:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Serenitygal3 View Post
Maybe I was lucky but I was able to order my 335i M-Sport at $500 below invoice. I also did the Drive for Team USA so I got that $1000 incentive as well.
I'm assuming $500 over invoice, with the $1000 incentive brining you to $500 under invoice? [Special incentives shouldn't be factored in when speaking of +- invoice price.]

$500 over is still a great deal, hard to come by!
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      10-07-2012, 04:55 PM   #36
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Regarding everything else mentioned in this thread, BMW DOES have hold back and other incentives. This is the primary reason ED invoice is lower than US invoice - BMW recognizes that the dealer doesn't have to cover floor plan and other expenses, so they pass the savings to the consumer.
No. The reason ED is so much cheaper is because those cars don't qualify for the dealers' satisfaction surveys. The dealer obviously makes money on those. Since BMW doesn't have to pay for those bonuses, the savings gets passed onto the buyer via lower ED MSRP.
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      10-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
I'm assuming $500 over invoice, with the $1000 incentive brining you to $500 under invoice? [Special incentives shouldn't be factored in when speaking of +- invoice price.]

$500 over is still a great deal, hard to come by!
No, it was 500 under invoice plus incentive which equals to 1500 under invoice but that's including training fees. I wasn't nitpicking the small details because I was happy
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      10-08-2012, 08:06 AM   #38
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I have a car guy that I call for all my business whenever I need a new ride. He constantly gets cars for prices below dealer invoice. I've never once had a a dealer match his price, some even going so far as to call me a liar.

For a fully spec'd out 328i xDrive mSport (everything but ACC) that I ordered through him coming directly from Germany it's costing me $52,200.00 before taxes. This is on an MSRP of $57,470. $720 off of dealer invoice without even having to bargain or negotiate or worry about incentives. No MACO, Training or other ridiculous fees ($75 doc fee). If anybody would like the guy's number I'd gladly help out. He's local to the NYC metro area.
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      10-08-2012, 12:20 PM   #39
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I have a car guy that I call for all my business whenever I need a new ride. He constantly gets cars for prices below dealer invoice. I've never once had a a dealer match his price, some even going so far as to call me a liar.

For a fully spec'd out 328i xDrive mSport (everything but ACC) that I ordered through him coming directly from Germany it's costing me $52,200.00 before taxes. This is on an MSRP of $57,470. $720 off of dealer invoice without even having to bargain or negotiate or worry about incentives. No MACO, Training or other ridiculous fees ($75 doc fee). If anybody would like the guy's number I'd gladly help out. He's local to the NYC metro area.
I'm interested in your guy's number if he does ED... You can PM me if you don't mind. Thank you!

Dealers are prompt to call people names when they don't get their way, jaxxx being a good example.
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      10-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themoveforward View Post
I have a car guy that I call for all my business whenever I need a new ride. He constantly gets cars for prices below dealer invoice. I've never once had a a dealer match his price, some even going so far as to call me a liar.

For a fully spec'd out 328i xDrive mSport (everything but ACC) that I ordered through him coming directly from Germany it's costing me $52,200.00 before taxes. This is on an MSRP of $57,470. $720 off of dealer invoice without even having to bargain or negotiate or worry about incentives. No MACO, Training or other ridiculous fees ($75 doc fee). If anybody would like the guy's number I'd gladly help out. He's local to the NYC metro area.
I would also be interested in his number. I'll shoot you a PM.
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      10-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #41
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Dealerships typically make their profit through financing, not sales.

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Ok let me clarify this. You got INVOICE? I mean, where is the dealer profit in this? I can see how at $500 over invoice they make a $500 profit for filling out some forms but at dead invoice? Curious to know if there is anything I've missed in BMW's pricing structure... Unless you didn't speak of the extra dealer fees you got hit with.
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      10-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #42
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Dealerships typically make their profit through financing, not sales.
Dealers make money lots of ways.

At the end of the day, the dealer would not sell you a car and lose money. They may work the numbers so they only make a few hundred bucks to earn you as a customer, but they are in the business of making money.

Service contracts, trade ins, superfluous insurance coverage, down payments, etc are all going to make money for the dealers bottom line. Even if they do give you a great rate, it's probably because they have some incentive that they haven't disclosed that they're going to put you down for to make that money back.

"Oh whats that, you're a college grad?" "No I graduated in 1988" "Mmm....no you're a college grad"

Purchasing a car at the end of the day is math, and they're the one with all the numbers, not you.
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      10-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #43
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dealers make a ton of money off service. Whether they are billing the hours to BMW(warranty) or the customer. I would venture and say thats where dealers make the majority of their money.
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      10-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #44
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Good point, justinnum1! My Honda dealership didn't make any money from me over the 9 trouble-free years I had my Honda; I hope that doesn't change too dramatically with my new BMW!

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dealers make a ton of money off service. Whether they are billing the hours to BMW(warranty) or the customer. I would venture and say thats where dealers make the majority of their money.

Last edited by rjc32000; 10-08-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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