[newBMWfan]

First hi to all on this forum!

While waiting for my first beemer to arrive (F30 328i Luxury Line, Saphire Black, 8AT, Xenons, Beige Lethaer inside, arrives in 5 days), I have been reading this great forum and found hundreds of usefull posts.

Also, besides this forum, I am constantly paying attention who comes out with N20 remap. After getting quote from Kellener on 1700 Euro, the next one I found today is http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html

They are not known to me, but then I am no very into this matter, so I would like you to share your thoughts on these guys. Do you know them? Have you had any business with them before?

Thanks!

[jj970]

haha...yeah, burger is well known. check out their tunes for the e90. They and Vishnu make similar piggyback type tunes for the n54 and n55.

I'm looking into the Burger for the n20 as well and think I'll get it. Much more cost effective. I'm sure Vishnu, Dinan, Giac and Cobb will all come out with tunes too. Burger just seems to be the quickest for this car.

[newBMWfan]

Originally Posted by jj970

haha...yeah, burger is well known. check out their tunes for the e90. They and Vishnu make similar piggyback type tunes for the n54 and n55.

I'm looking into the Burger for the n20 as well and think I'll get it. Much more cost effective. I'm sure Vishnu, Dinan, Giac and Cobb will all come out with tunes too. Burger just seems to be the quickest for this car.

Thanks! I just needed this kind of confirmation to order.
Will let you know the results.

[F30.ca]

Wow! If this is reliable its a great deal. Hopefully it doesn't set off a bunch if check engine lights.

[F30 Black Sapphire]

Is the Installtion difficult? Can it done by DIY? I eager to know about that as this will for sure affect my buying decision.

Anyone if you have the installation guid for N20, please post.

[Mason3]

Personally waiting for ESS. They did wonders on my Supercharged M3. I am sure their software for the N20 will be just as good!

[nodleecyrb]

just to warn you guys, burger tuning is always first to market with a "tune." that said tune is normally half-assed and consists of a boost increase, maybe some a/f tuning. ignition timing isn't touched, however, and it relys on the knock sensor to set ignition timing.

it's your car, do what you want to it, i'd just be wary of running a glorified boost controller on my new $40k+ bmw.

[wayman519]

This is my post on a TMC 3 series tuning chip I found for $450. Should help out a bit. I also explain how its installed and warranty issues with TMC, Dinan and Kellener.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688854

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by nodleecyrb

just to warn you guys, burger tuning is always first to market with a "tune." that said tune is normally half-assed and consists of a boost increase, maybe some a/f tuning. ignition timing isn't touched, however, and it relys on the knock sensor to set ignition timing.

it's your car, do what you want to it, i'd just be wary of running a glorified boost controller on my new $40k+ bmw.

What are you talking about? Look at the N54 and N55 market, I don't think people consider the Burger products to be half-assed. They are first in the market with a mild tune, then they continuously provide updates and new stages. $400 for 24whp and 39wtq seems like a great deal considering how new the car is. What else did you expect?

There are people on the forums who've been running Burger tunes for tens of thousands of miles without a single check engine light.

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by nodleecyrb

^the jb4 for the n54 and the n55 STILL doesn't control/tune the ignition timing. it just increases the boost over 100% of stock psi. on the stock timing curve <---- this is the concerning part

Has this caused any problems for you?

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Mahzari

Has this caused any problems for you?

i've ran BMS tunes on my n54 powered cars before. i've logged timing and witnessed knock events, timing drops, etc.

vishnu procede and cobb accessport take a more pro-active approach to ignition timing. rather than ride the knock sensor (by running increased boost and the stock ignition curve), they modify the timing tables. this is really the correct way to tune a car. BMS products are normally just glorified boost controllers.

it's your car, do what you want, i just wouldn't be caught running a BMS "tune" on my $45+ f30

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by bryce

i've ran BMS tunes on my n54 powered cars before. i've logged timing and witnessed knock events, timing drops, etc.

vishnu procede and cobb accessport take a more pro-active approach to ignition timing. rather than ride the knock sensor (by running increased boost and the stock ignition curve), they modify the timing tables. this is really the correct way to tune a car. BMS products are normally just glorified boost controllers.

it's your car, do what you want, i just wouldn't be caught running a BMS "tune" on my $45+ f30

Really? I was unaware of this. I have friends who are running mild BMS tunes (with no supporting mods) that haven't had any of these problems. That's good to know.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Mahzari

Really? I was unaware of this. I have friends who are running mild BMS tunes (with no supporting mods) that haven't had any of these problems. That's good to know.

ask them to datalog ignition timing. my bet is none of them have ever datalogged on their cars.

[mocohead]

I have spoken to various vendors and they are working diligently on products for this car. When the N54 was released Vishnu was first to market and his original tune worked ok.

What will be interesting is to see if the N20 has the same level of sophistication as the N54/55 in terms of tune detection.

[newBMWfan]

And another one I found
http://www.speed-buster.de/chiptunin...ps/a-10109620/

Price 700 EUR (including VAT)
+ shipping

This page is there for some time, but it was not showing the "gain" figures (were zeros).
Now, puting a VW Tiguan chart picture on the page showing BMW N20 tuning box doesn't give me much confidence in ordering this...

Burger is still in beta, Kelleners 1200 EUR.

I guess it is still early for ordering any remap for N20...

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Mahzari

Really? I was unaware of this. I have friends who are running mild BMS tunes (with no supporting mods) that haven't had any of these problems. That's good to know.

That's because it's complete nonsense. BMS has tuned over 15,000 vehicles over the past few years and none of them suffer from these knock problems several of the forum "fans" of other tunes claim. Their tunes run the proper lower than OEM advance curves to go along with the richer air/fuel ratio and increased boost. BMS devotes a lot of R&D to new applications and as a result is normally the first to release a well tested and developed tune. Normally they start with the easy and safe increases. The low hanging fruit. In the case of the N20 they will start with Stage1 which is a fairly mild increase. Then they continue R&D and longer term testing at higher performance levels and only release those when they feel they are fully developed and safe for general use.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by bryce

i've ran BMS tunes on my n54 powered cars before. i've logged timing and witnessed knock events, timing drops, etc.

vishnu procede and cobb accessport take a more pro-active approach to ignition timing. rather than ride the knock sensor (by running increased boost and the stock ignition curve), they modify the timing tables. this is really the correct way to tune a car. BMS products are normally just glorified boost controllers.

it's your car, do what you want, i just wouldn't be caught running a BMS "tune" on my $45+ f30

Bryce this post is disingenuous at best. You've been informed many times by many people that BMS offers CPS offsetting for the N54 applications for those like yourself that despite the evidence to the contrary still believe it is an effective form of timing control.

Mike

[bosz]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Bryce this post is disingenuous at best. You've been informed many times by many people that BMS offers CPS offsetting for the N54 applications for those like yourself that despite the evidence to the contrary still believe it is an effective form of timing control.

Mike

Hi Mike, In layman terms, what does this CPS offsetting do exactly? I read another thread about it but wasnt to sure. Is this the device that takes care of the reliance on knock sensor thing that some people seem to bash JB with? When I get my F30 335 and when you release the JB4 for it (lol) , id be most running occasionally in Map 1 and maybe the economy map sometimes, mostly on bypass. So Not doing anything crazy here...

thankss

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by bosz

Hi Mike, In layman terms, what does this CPS offsetting do exactly? I read another thread about it but wasnt to sure. Is this the device that takes care of the reliance on knock sensor thing that some people seem to bash JB with? When I get my F30 335 and when you release the JB4 for it (lol) , id be most running occasionally in Map 1 and maybe the economy map sometimes, mostly on bypass. So Not doing anything crazy here...

thankss

CPS stands for crank position sensor, and you can offset that sensor to influence ignition spark advance among other things like VANOS timing, fuel injection timing, etc. It ties in to the bigger picture of how advance is tuned and how you avoid knock at higher boost levels. If your engine is knocking it will damage itself, blow a headgasket, crank plugs, break a piston, and all sorts of nasty stuff. How advance is managed changes for each application so the tuning strategy with the N54 is different than the N55 which is different than the N52 which is different than the new N20.

I don't know enough about the N20 product under development and testing now to give exact details on the tuning end but BMS has never released a tune that causes knock if the proper map for the octane is selected. These guys like Bryce and a few others have been saying the sky is falling for the last five years with BMS tuning. Yet, over the years it's proven to be one of the most reliable and widely used systems out there in the BMW community. If a motor was knocking at full power output it would not make it more than a few miles without serious damage. The DME is actually programmed to detect knock andthrow a specific set of knock codes if knock is detected and BMS tunes DO NOT throw these codes. With 15,000 customers running BMS tunes many of which have been using them for 100k miles their reliability rating has proven to be as good or better than any other tuning platform out there.

Mike

[bryce]

Mike, why don't you enlighten everyone why bms is getting into cps off setting now, when for years they (you) said it was unnecessary, dumb, and marketed the jb products as superior to vishnu's (who have had cps off setting for years). I can link the thread if you'd like.

[Laguna Seca Blue]

There's a similar thread in the N55 section. I posted my comments there. I'll repeat one point...

Do your research carefully. I didn't know anything about any of these tunes a few months ago. However, I read a lot and have learnt a lot.

In all likelihood, Mike won't answer Bryce or my questions. BMS has a pattern of skirting difficult issues. I don't want to be too negative though, from what I understand they have great customer service and their products are cheap.